There are several 16 pin wheels(or 15,not sure) in my neighbourhood,all of them are Slovenian Airball roulette wheels.
On one of these wheels the diamonds are large one too.It’s almost whole covered by these pins.I’ve noticed this particular wheel tends to repeat the last spun 5 numbers sector pretty regular and even a mechanical play for last spun number to repeat immediately often can give a slight(or sometimes not so slight) edge.
Except if the wheel has 16 diamonds. 8 vertical and 8 horizontal…
Then I guess a 4 pin game is on :D[/quote]
Interesting way of thinking.
So, for all Oldtimers ;D
how is advantage on 3 pins acheaved?
Forester why u deleted the post that u made about Kellys point of View abou the right conditions?
U had posted that u see it as 1:24.
I want to say that I agree.
Maybe because i do not want you to read 
Maybe because it was in the other thread. :-*
I didn’t delete anything. 8)
“Maybe because it was in the other thread.”
If thats the case then I am sorry…my bad.
[quote=“Forester, post:43, topic:571”]So, for all Oldtimers ;D
how is advantage on 3 pins acheaved?[/quote]
:o anybody
I asume you mean Jafco method since he is the only one who describes 2 and 3 pins games with overlap. It leaves no answers from those who haven`t read what Jafco has to say about it.
You invite to a longer discussion with plenty of ball meter per second arguments, so the short version is that 3 pin games extends 2 pin games with an extra overlap (2 overlaps). You can argue that a slow wheel speed will make only little or maybe no overlap at all and a too fast speed might even start erode the overlap again so that it only works within a tight range of wheel speeds which is probably true. I dont play that way so i havent experimented with it, but i do see the point for a possible play.
I got his method somewhere but cant find it, so i cant remember what Jafco specificly describes on the CD.
PS: Overlaps is another way of narrowing the wheel down to say 22 - 28 pockets and have bets in largest possibility zones. Its not “spot on” prediction and i know how you feel about that. If you can play a 3 pin game and still have an advantage, you can call it estimating all you like, i don`t really care, you obviously have a personal vendetta agains Jafco so anything less than spot on prediction is not good enough.
As for his “dragging” phrase used in terms of his computer play, there is an deffinition of frame dragging in both VB and Bias play, so its not exactly Chinese. Gotta go.
Not really, I described 3 pin but differently, on the way how advantage is gained in a real game with real conditions (predicting earlier and on any wheel).
Do not worry what I say , measure or understand, I waned someone explains to me his understanding how to take advantage on 3 pins.
I thought" expert oldtimer" will do but it looks as he can’t see posts.
In regards to Jafco’s and what he calls 3 pin my argument is that he again didn’t see something. It is 4 pin. 4th pin is actually more closer to prediction then what he explained for third pin (his third pin is same as on 2 pin game but of course because of fast rotor it is far in front.
When rotor is 2 -2.5 sec many things overlap because that is time length of last ball rotation. On many wheels also ball jumps may be 180 deg. separated. So when LS played cross patterns I believe main advantage was in overlaps of ball exit points and ball jumps. Even if the bal lmakes additional extra rotation is nto the problem. In such case most important was timing the rotor accurately. Since at that time he could easily place bats very late timing rotor was easier because reamining time was shorter. Anotehr problem was where the error is created, selecting wrong rotation to predict or in last rotation.
However, all of that again is nobodies system it is something that is happening on the wheel, player doesn’t need to apply anything to get it.
With VB2 I can’t do it because VB2 predicts much earlier in time and wider. Timing fast rotor earlier in spin is not easy.
With FF many times I did play fast rotor, when playing can’t always see everything what’s going on the wheel. Many times didn’t get ball where I wanted to drop but results were just there. It is specific for each wheel. You will never never know if you never never go.
Laurance Scott in his book Volume 2 explains 2 pin game. Year later I was explaining on a video and it was far earlier then Jafco made a web site and start calling it his system. Obviously we didn’t feel to call it our system since it is something that is happening on the wheel and not something the way of prediction we use is making.
that means if you don’t go than you never know. 
Long term, if you can manage to pick the right revoloution, there would be an edge playing Jafcos 3 pin game. Alternatively, if you play a level game (4 pins and 3 overlaps) you are playing a random game. Compared to Laurances acoustic game, they get to the same place in different ways, but with Laurances software you don`t need to do anything else than just note thedealer, wheel speed, reference number and the outcome number. If its over a longer period, you can add air pressure into the model too.
If its a 3 pin game, it will most likely show up in Larances software with at least 2 high points to bet. Maybe even with 3 or more highpoints depending on how playable the wheel is. With the software you can quickly find the best wheel speeds to play because usually its a tight range of wheel speeds that gives the best edge and you can save your bets on the other speeds.
Long term, if you can manage to pick the right revoloution, there would be an edge playing Jafcos 3 pin game. Alternatively, if you play a level game (4 pins and 3 overlaps) you are playing a random game.Ball clock way, rotor 9 pockets in 0.6sec ~2.4s per rotation, ¼ of last rotation about 0.6 sec.
3.5 rotations from prediction the ball is above zero at 6 o’clock PIN 2
If the ball dropped at PIN1 3.25 (3 o’lock) zero would be at 9 o’clock which is 18 pockets in front of ball.
If ball drops after 3.75 rotations ( 9 o’clock ) PIN3 form prediction zero would be at 3 o’clock so it’s again 18 pockets in front
And finally if the ball drops after 4 rotations it will be at PIN4 at 12 o’clock and zero will be there.
If from 2 pin he can call it 3 pin because prediction is only with 18 pockets error, why not to call it 4 pins since forth pin has same error margin, even a bit less because ¼ of ball rotation on the end of rotation is longer than ¼ at the start.
Theoretically on such wheel even if it is perfectly levelled no matter where the ball drops we should get 50% of times ball drop at our predicted number and 50% of times 18 pockets from there.
Did I just invented 4 pin bias play fora a levelled wheel
And we do not need 16 diamonds ;D.
Furthermore, if we have ball scatter with 2 pick points 180 deg. from each other we win every second spin as long as we can get right amount of rotations to the end.
Forester all the ppl that had the chance to know you ,they all know that you are genuine.Me too.
But what u continue failling to understand is that the 2 pin game is something that doesn t belong in luck…as u say.
It is matter of 2 speeds ranges in the ball revolutions.And ofcource the correct rotor speeds range(like VB2 has to have)
The knee point (when we have a 2 pin tilted wheel) behaves with 2 ways.
1)Very Big decleration
2)smallet decleration
these are the 2 factors that tell u how to take advantage of the 2 pins.
It isn t luck as u say…we can pick the correct rev to make 4 revs to go and the correct rev for 3.25 to go…Or 5 and 4.25 etc with a better margin than the 50% as u claim. It is according to which rev the knee point is.
You are a genuine RC enginiar and a very good understander of the Visual and RC prediction…
But as I am telling u all these years u don t have the ability to IDENTIFY ball speeds…
THIS IS THE ONLY REASON OF WHY U CAN T UNDERSTAND THAT THE 2 PIN GAME IS NOT A LUCKY GAME BUT A GAME THAT WE CAN TAKE A BETTR ADVANTAGE OF THE 50 % .
U will again for 1 more time will post the MS deferences of the 4 and the 3,25 revs.
U can t understand that these small deferences are noticable for a player that is expirienced enough and laso have the ability to identify ball speeds.
I can t blame u…it isn t something can t understadn because u can t do it.
And as u know this is the reason why u invented the VB2…and well done.
ps. The only way for u to belive that a player can take advantage of the 2 pins is to see it with ur own eyes.
If he can do it in 100 spins and still have a better margin of the 50% that u think then I don t see anyreason why u will not accept that it can be done.
I believe you have lack of understanding of what I say even what Jafco says.
Jafco never even mentioned the knee point, it was my comment that is better predicting when the ball has highest decelerating rather than his explanation of 3-4 rev to the end. Jefco’s original document never even mentions prediction earlier then 4 revolutions.
It isn't luck as u say...we can pick the correct rev to make 4 revs to go and the correct rev for 3.25 to go...Or 5 and 4.25 etc with a better margin than the 50% as u claim. It is according to which rev the knee point is.
I can, but you can’t or someone who did learn from Jafco’s document can’t since it wasn’t explained. By the way we do not pick will it be 4 or 3.25 we only predict and regardless did the ball make 4 or 3.25 we have high chance to win. It is your bad understanding. The idea is to target ball speed in between 3.25 and 4, but not is it 3.25 or 4. There is no point in in separating it since it will give us same result.
50%,I assume you are referring to my explanation on a real wheel not the one where deceleration in between rotations is more than 300ms. Also when prediction time is reasonable instead of so late.
"But as I am telling u all these years u don t have the ability to IDENTIFY ball speeds.."
Sure I should believe you and not myself. Of course I can, I can do it even with much faster balls speeds. I believe we went through this and I already explained to you. (why you are repeating it only god knows) When testing FF what predicts at particular time I exactly know when prediction will happen. But when predicting earlier in time (as it is mostly required when I play) and in front of the knee point, chance for errors is greater. Also when I play in casino there is time and tiredness factor, we can say and excitement effect. VB2 is there to help me to correct mistakes so I can play more relaxed. If when playing I start prediction in a different rotation VB2 compensates for it. That’s all.
I am not sure when did I say that person can’t take advantage of 2 pins. I said he will and he will have it regardless which kind of prediction he uses. It’s even documented on some of older videos I’ve made. I also said 2 pin advantage or 3 pin has nothing to do with Jacob’s system. However on his wheel and in so late predictions he can be more accurate, but on a real casino wheel instead of targeted 3.25 and 4 rotations to the end you will have and significant amount of 4.25 and 3 rotations to the end.
My question in this thread was regarding taking advantage of 3 pins by Jafcos explanation, is really 3 pin or 2 pin or as i was explaining 4 pin?
Hello everyone i am new to this forum
I have known Jafco for a year and i started the training for the visual system and the pred7 computer a year ago.
My first visit was very good. Jafco was very professional and very passionate but also very accurate and thorough in his explainations. My friend and i were astonished at what we were seeing with both the visual and computer systems.
When you see jafco around a roulette wheel you can appreciate the work and research he has carried out over decades. We have put his systems into practice in casinos and we can say without any doubt that with practice and understanding of the very unique jafco training both systems work.
I would recommend anyone who wants to win consistantly at roulette to get in touch with jafco. Take the time to go and see for yourself! You deserve better than reading criticisms from Jafco’s rivals.
When you hear about Jafcos systems from himself you’ll understand why i dont need to say " Good Luck ", you’ll know then its not down to luck !
Enjoy
I think when we go into details about differenting a specific ball revoloution on new wheels, its important to point out that at least the 4 - 6 ball revoloutions is important to identify the revoloution you on a old wheel could identify by just seeing the revoloution before the knee point. Many new wheels don`t have the “lip” in the track anymore, so the knee is gone.
One needs the rythm from the decelleration of the prior 4 - 6 revoloutions because the one you look for is so hard to identify alone, that you need help from the ones before. Laurance used the phrase “getting one with the wheel” , actually i think it was in conjunction of getting perfect click timing using a computer, but the same goes for playing VB.
Interesting, even his videos may look impressive to someone who doesn’t understand, for me it’s just a marketing strategy good enough for people without understanding but far away from reality that a player may find in casino.
On a real wheel there is no VB expert who can show anything impressive while on a wheel as Jafco’s most people would be able to show impressive predictions even if they predict before then he spins the ball.
Some time ago Stefano showed impressive video. It was impressive only for people without understanding. His predictions didn’t have any relationship to numbers where the ball drops on rotor, but somehow he did get final results with significant advantage. Jafco do get ok hits on rotor but his wheel is much easier to predict and it has more tilt. However the most strangest part on his wheel he is getting less accuracy to point where the ball drops then to the point where the ball jumps which is paradox and only indicates his desire for marketing to sell.
"I would recommend anyone who wants to win consistently at roulette to get in touch with jafco. Take the time to go and see for yourself! You deserve better than reading criticisms from Jafco's rivals."
Most people here have his system, some bought it, some got it form a friend. There is nothing in there except explanation of basic tilted wheel principles and renaming expressions we commonly use. But hey, I’ agree with you, I always say, go and grab whatever you can. You may find something that suits you.
Would you agree with me that Jafco’s VB has no solution to identify particular ball rotation on a tilted wheel? His solution; look the wheel and estimate. Is that really improvement if any VB is doing it?
He also suggesting predictions 3-4 rotations before then ball drops which by my experience is worst then prediction in 5th or 6th. Most VB players would suggest you to look for sudden ball deceleration change which is happening earlier in spin.
Anyway how on earth predicting so late during the spin he can call VB for modern times? If it was 20 years ago, maybe it would be ok. What for you may be impressive, for me is not. That’s all.
Until now I didn’t hear about single experienced person who told me, from now I will not predict as I was but I will predict the way Jafco explained by guessing and with late bets. I didn’t find a single thing in his eBook that I can use to improve my way of prediction on common casino wheels and conditions. If I missed or misunderstood something I will appreciate your explanation.
Also it isn’t justified to call me a rival since I do not sell any VB, if someone reads posts around he will find so much information for free. Probably more than in any eBook. Perhaps Laurance may be a rival but his 20 year old book has more useful material for real play then Jafco’s new eBook.
About computers, I do not make PDA or mobile phones. I design and make custom devices, and I do not pay for advertisements just to sell as Jacob does.
Aggressive marketing of gambling systems and misleading videos by my opinion is worst then a genuine discussion about the product. I did not make any single dishonest statement about his system. I am just explaining what it is and asking questions on which nobody of people as you could answer.
From my experience talking computers including my FFA are really justified only for team play.
Jafco’s PDA can compete with Mark Howe’s, Stefano’s, or Barnett’s computers. I even do not know if his PDA has capability for radio communication to be compatible because all the others do. With what I see, Jafco is just sorting his problem with double switch his computer used. I was always wondering how with foot clocking was possible to use his 2 switches?
I do like to discuss any device or any theory, you may judge me for that but isn’t that what forums are for? I also do indicate week points in my own system and I’ll always encourage discussion about it for better understanding.
With differences on side, I you are welcome to explain how 3 pin is a 3 pin game and not 2 pin or 4 pin game.
Long time ago I realised, roulette computers should be sold only to people who are looking for one. For that paying for advertisements is not required. Who looks for one he will find it. Trying to convince people to buy it especially with misleading videos which has nothing to do with reality is also very wrong. Of course there is always question that never is properly answered. Why if someone represents himself as a professionals has so much desire to sell. From all people I would consider professionals I’ve seen only desire to play.
U have said a lot of times that the 2 pin game is just something that it develops and that we CAN T take advantage of it…It is U that have forgetten what u have said a lot of times.
“”“However the most strangest part on his wheel he is getting less accuracy to point where the ball drops then to the point where the ball jumps which is paradox and only indicates his desire for marketing to sell.”""
This is again WRONG!
And u know what is the worst part???..That U aslo know it!
If the ball will hit the DD on the top part then ball will mach with the finall scatter prediction because AS U ALREADY KNOW the ball has come EARLIER in time and hit the DD…so the final prediction is MORE FAR ,…so the ball will FLY(do u remember ur own expression??? “FLY”)on the rotor and teh finall point of the stop will MATCH with the prediction,
ANd as u know the opposite thing will happen if the ball will come later on the DD an hit the DOWN PART OF IT…the ball will have come later so the final prediction will be more close to the DD and the ball will NOT “FLY” or make a wide scatter because the ball will STICK almost down of the DD…
I really can t understand HOW U CAN change ur own words and expirience(about what u have also noticed) in order to descrise a competitors material…
Viper, what you understand and what I explain, the difference is as earth and sky.
“U have said a lot of times that the 2 pin game is just something that it develops and that we CAN T take advantage of it.”
I did say that 2 pin game is something that happens on any wheel, but I didn’t say we can’t take advantage of it. In many posts I explained when we have 2 pin advantage when we have 3 pin advantage, therefore you are talking a nonsense. I am also constantly saying, no matter how we predict we are taking advantage of it, therefore it doesn’t relate to anyone’s system.
No matter how you play you always taking advantage of it. Surely if you predicting 3-4 rotations before then ball drops on a wheel with extreme deceleration as Jafco that you may get better results.
“”“However the most strangest part on his wheel he is getting less accuracy to point where the ball drops then to the point where the ball jumps which is paradox and only indicates his desire for marketing to sell.”""
Sorry but you didn’t understand again. On Jafco’s video I looked and analysed the ball hits same diamond same position but when prediction is wrong by 10 pockets it jumps 10 extra pockets. For that to happened so often it exceeds probability by far, therefore I have right to come to conclusion that video is carefully selected. I didn’t see in any casino a ball with such bouncing to produce results he has, so again it is not real for modern days. I am not going in to it how he got it, not even Mark or Stefano have had it.
Another part you do not understand is when prediction is 3.25 or 4 rotations there is no so great difference in time of ball travelling as if it is predicted 6 rotations before ball drop. I also looked point of hits on the rotor. In private forum section there is somewhere explanation how much and why. If you want search for it because I will not.
I also do not log in with different names to pretend to be an expert, writing rubbish to discredit someone or to give myself credits. Sometimes ago there was guy called Oldtimer pretending to be an expert. Some people he managed to convince but he couldn’t convince me (milliseconds that you hate so much screwed him). Would you know who that might be? :-*
Surprises me even more because I know that you talked much with Jafco and until now you still do not understand that there is no need to predict will the ball make 4 or 3.25 since the result is same, but result is the same no matter how you got your prediction.
I’ll ask you as well.
Explain to me 3 pins game. Then explain to me how can VB systems that predicts 3-4 rotations before ball drops by just estimating, acording to Jafco be the most advanced system in the world? Point to me in Jafco’s document where he explains how to predict 5-6 rotations before ball drop which would be more reasonable time, or where he is explain the knee point. His eBook and what he explains in there only is good for his wheel with additional condition that you can place bets until last rotation. (I comment only what is bough,t not what he might know or add)
As a theory of tilted wheel for someone who felt form Mars, yes it is a good explanation of basic way to play, but that’s all about it.
By my opinion there is no Jafco’s system only Jafcos explanation. If you want to call his cards used to help beginners, as a jafco’s system, then yes, but how that would relate to performance of professional play i leave for you to decide.
U are again for 1 more time contradicting urself about the 2 pin game advantage and if we can take care of it.
“”“I also do not log in with different names to pretend to be an expert, writing rubbish to discredit someone or to give myself credits. Sometimes ago there was guy called Oldtimer pretending to be an expert. Some people he managed to convince but he couldn’t convince me (milliseconds that you hate so much screwed him). Would you know who that might be? “””
Maybe he is the same person that put oil in ur wheel ball track for the APs chalenge…
AND YES u were logging in the GG Forum as BAGA in order to descrice Stefano again!
And everybody understood that it was You from ur bad English.
Remeber that YOU started the war between us and NOT ME!
ps. All the problems that I had with you, I was speaking about them in private through MSN…
But NO u chose to post our problems in the public!
The only one that loses here is YOU!
Because u are doing a buziness here by selling RCS…
If all the members will hate me…its ok…I don t have any cincern because I am not runnung any buziness here…But for you its not like that…
You are so imature that u can t even understand these so easy things