Hello lucky stricke i want to learn differents ways to estimate the ball, but i cant read, the message is blocked,i estimate it with a diamond for example at 12 o clock , and i see the numbers when the ball pass over the diamond and calculate the angle, when it change , and makes it bigger,then i presume that i have my right revolution,and it is difficult to me not to confuse 1 revolution with another, when the angle is similar and the desaceleration is not so big, so i am very interested to know others method,i am from argentina and all i have learned was on english or germany forums because here visual ballistic is not too much known ,thanks for your answer,nico
The post was removed by Lucky. It was a description of how to use a metronome to ID a specific ball rev.
Hello davey jones i am conffused he says different ways to estimate the right revolution.Maybe you can help me, with some things.
I try to estimate the right revolution in this form.
i have 3 diamonds or 3 points on the wheel that i see( like the uwe method), and i see too the number zero and where is it at the moment that the dealer shot the ball. Then i try to see at this 3 points when the ball cros zero number,and the relation with these 3 points, like for example the ball and zero at 12 o clock,the next spins the ball and zero at 12 o clock, when in the next spin the ball and zero at 11 ,i have a desaceleration, so i wait the next revolution and at point 12 when comes the ball i see the number, and if a know thwe scatter then i can predict. for example scatter of 18 pockets,
At the moment of the shot number zero is at 12 o clock
1 spin, zero and ball at 12
2 spin zero and ball at 12
3 spin zero and ball at 11
4 spin i see the number under the ball when zero is at 12 o clock, for example number 10.
I adiccioned the scatter angle of 18 pockets to number 10 and my new prediction is number zero.
Can you correct me , if it is not a good form to predict, or can you recommend me other method to identify the right revolution?
Another important question is in the next game , same speed of wheel at the moment of the shot number zero was not at 12 o clock in this case, for example now number 10 is at 12 o clock, to predict with the zero i have to addiccion this angle too?thanks you very much
[quote=“nicoramone, post:43, topic:870”]4 spin i see the number under the ball when zero is at 12 o clock, for example number 10.
I adiccioned the scatter angle of 18 pockets to number 10 and my new prediction is number zero.
Can you correct me , if it is not a good form to predict, or can you recommend me other method to identify the right revolution?[/quote]
When you get a reference number identifying particular ball rotation as in your example No:10
It doesn’t mean that the ball will drop at number 10 so you just add 18 pockets.
The ball may drop at different number but that number should have same distance form number 10.
For example the ball may be dropping 9 pockets after number 10, around number 9 (Eu wheel)
When you apply 18 pockets average ball jump then you should play around number 34.
Also before identifying particular ball rotation you need to do rotor speed clocking and make appropriate adjustment for different rotor speeds.
Thanks for replying to him Forester.
I’m not very familiar with identifying those kinds of patterns Nico, so I am afraid I am not of much help. I tend to use a metronome or a 1 sec cadence to ID the ball rev on most occasions. But as far as rotor and ball intersecting patterns are concerned, I just was never able to get into them as a method for prediction.
Thank you forester and davey jones for your answers
Yes forester you are right i need to time the rotor’s speed, but think one moment that the speed is constant of the rotor.
In the example when the spin starts and the dealer shot the ball the number zero was at 12 o clock,
Now in a new game the dealer shot the ball but now at 12 o clock is not the zero, so my question is how can adjust these.
In these new game when dealer shots the ball my number at 12 o clock is the numer 6, so what can i do? i know that the scatter is of 18 pockets, i can identify the revolution, but the question is i need to adjust this change of ubication of number zero at the start of the spin, or it is irrelevant?
When identifying particular ball rotation the number at the start of the spin is irrelevant.
Identifying particular ball rotation means identified ball rotation is for example 6 rotations before then the ball drops. After that the ball will travel 5 remaining ball rotations until it drops.
Assuming that the rotor is constant , 5 remaining rotations have reasonably constant time for example 8 seconds.
If rotor speed is 3 seconds per rotation it means the rotor in remaining 8 seconds will move 8/3=2.66 rotations.
If at dominant diamond at the moment when you identify particular ball rotation is number zero then the ball will drop 0.66 or 2/3 of 37 pockets form there. Which in clock way ball direction would be number 14.
If at that moment the ball was at number 13, 2/3 of the wheel form 13 is number zero.
Now you can see that a reference number has only constant distance to the number where the ball will drop. In other words in usual if you read number zero it doesn’t mean that the ball will drop at number zero.
Nicoramone, Scotts crossovers are only used to identify the correct ball revoloution. As earlyer stated the ball passes the zeros at different places and as yje ball slows down at a specific point the ball will pass zero twice after each other at the same spot on the wheel.
Lets say in spin 1 it happens when the ball is at 5 oclock on the wheel.
Let the ball run from 5 oclock until it passes 12 oclock and read the number below the ball when it is at 12 oclock. Thats your reference number.
Note the outcome number next to your reference number on a piece of paper. Count the pockets between the 2 numbers.
Spin 2 the zero and ball passes each other twice at the same spot in two following revoloutions (as in spin 1) this might in this spin happen at 3 oclock.
Let the ball run until 12 oclock and read the number below the ball and note this reference number down. Count the pockets between the reference number and outcome number.
Now imagine after some spins you see that there is are plenty of spins where the reference number is 5 - 7 pockets away from the outcome number, you can now try to make an actual prediction by moving the 12 oclock reading spot 5 - 7 pockets and read the number and make a bet on it.
That is in short the basics of the cross overs. Remember that the rotor speed has a great influence on both cross overs and scatter so at first you should either only focus on 1 rotor speed or make a categori for each rotor speed.
The cross over pattern itself, predicts nothing except the ball revoloution and the reference number should always be read at the same spot and in that particular ball revoloution no matter where the zero crosses happens in the wheel.
You will encounter some borderline incidents where the zero crosses happens at your reading spot and you dont know wether you should read immeadeatly or let the ball run a full revoloution but you will have count the remaining ball revoloutions to find that out. It could be both and i cant tell you which one is correct, simple counting will tell.
Sorry, I read it late.
Bingo Davey , very well explained and to take in account specific rotor speeds is very important.
E.H.
That all about what you talk , no matter if talk about crossover or about specifical bal time in which it do one raund - all that is simply relationship ball passed way and left way. Only diference is that when you look to ball speed then your answer is place and time when and where ball will fall, when you look to some kind of crossover you look to ball pass distance looking to moving wheel and from that estimate left distance. Because ball slow down is going in some patern - possible to find that patern and use it in play. Only if you look to one round time and when it is 1-1.2 sec here are too much place to make not right decission in determing where you are in spin, because the same distance can be left when ball is 1 sec but in some other spin it can be also 1.2 sec.
To avoid that i will sugest to use more big time frame and observe more long ball distance - I observe something between 2-3 ball rounds. Even longer distance can give you better predictions but here we have abit lack of time for that. And one more what i will sugest - usually more easy not try to cach specifical ball speed with methronom ( to see ball twice in the same place ) but simply notice ball position after time frame and remember which position to which left distance leads.
Similar is with crosover related methods - lets say system E2 use ball passed way relationship with left way, say if we use about 6 sec time then ball pass way in that frame is about equal to left distance. Of course every wheel have his pathern of ball deceleration so every wheel have his own time in which passed way = left way, and of course we need to do small corection for wheel speed, but when we observe long time we usually are not far from some specifical point ending in which passed way and left way is about equall no matter which is wheel speed.
Thanks for your answer, forester, bebediktus davey and kelly.
I asked about these because patterns are difficult to find all the time.
For example: zero and ball at 12,11,10,9,8,6,5,3,2,12,8,6,3,1,9,6,3,12,and the last at 6.These is an example from gordons video .
So how can i do here to see the patern , these are all encounters of zero and ball in the spins, can i reduced it ?
i asked that kelly because seeing any videos i note that for example at the start of the spin zero and ball at 12 o clock,and if i wait the zero come again to 12 o clock , in these spin zero and ball again and maybe at 9 or 6 it will decelerate , i can so estimate the moment of deceleration, how do you do to reconoce the correct revolution or how can you do to estimate the moment of deceleration?
In gordons video that post forester i look at number at 12 o clock at the moment of the start of the spin, and i wait that this number come again to 12 o clock and in this spin it will decelerate, maybe at 9 or 6 or 3 ,or maybe the next spin but i can estimate .
If i do the same on the uwe video that all we see , i make the same, and the same happens i can estimate the revolution in aprox. 2 rotor spins.I am wrong doing this way?allways need i to have a specific diamond to predict?( the dominant diamond) or maybe can i estimate a drop point if i can estimate the correct revolution ? thank you very much,nico
I not sure where you look for patern but mine impression that you look not in right place. You must look for patern what you see in midlle of spin and how that what you see do efect to outcome. Simple example you see ball distance in some time frame and from that you know how long distance is left till ball fall.
I not sure where you look for patern but mine impression that you look not in right place. You must look for patern what you see in midlle of spin and how that what you see do efect to outcome. Simple example you see ball distance in some time frame and from that you know how long distance is left till ball fall.
I dont understand , which is the right place? when is middle of spin?
What do you do to predict a correct revolution, and a correct pattern without a roulette computer or a timer, where to look
My question is simple i give you an example and you answer me how do you identify the right pattern and revolution
First game- wheel of 3 secons, dominant diamond at 12 o clock, scatter of 18 pockets.Start of the spin.
zero and ball at 12,11,10,9,8,6,5,3,2,12,8,6,3,1,9,6,3,12,and the last at 6
If you take only 12 o clock DD and zero for patterns, you will see zero at 12 at first spin of the ball, zero and ball at 12, zero and ball at 12 , and in the next spin the ball fall on DD at number six and travel to number 29
What do you do to predict a correct revolution, and a correct pattern without a roulette computer or a timer, where to lookTo find right revolution without counting time is almoust impossible. You still must have to measure time - there are no way to do without. Of course you not need to have timer for determing some time frame you can simply learn to recognize time very good without nothing . But that is dificult way. You can use headcount or something else, but you still must measure time. If you not want to measure time at all you can use knee zone efect in which ball deceleration becams much higer in one ball round - but that is not exact way.
Yes bebediktus i prefer to use head count and i want to try to master this way, so after that i can do it maybe with a timer , but only to have more presicion,i dont want to make vb without taking time ,i think that what i try to say is not clear or you dont understand me .
i try last time: i know a wheel of 3 seconds , my scatter is allways 18 pockets, and always the wheel is 3 seconds it has not change at speed.
My question s how can i develop the correct revolution? how can make that with crossover patterns?i dont understand how can crossover patterns help me to detect a correct revolution
Yes, if i know that at one moment maybe at 12 o clock i have 4 revolutions more , i can make a prediction, but nobody explain how to note the correct revolution. If the deceleration is too big is easy to detect , but if it is not big how can i do it? explain me please and i will try it, because i am very interested in these theme , and i can predict in videos with a DD and a deceleration big, but the problem come when it is not big, so what do you recommend me , thank very much,nico
Nico if you refer to Scotts cross overs you should remember that you either need a double zero wheel or exchange 00 with the numbers 5/10 because you are not likely to detect any cross over looking for only 1 zero. Detecting the correct revoloution is much easyer done either with a thumper or metronome or a head count. Then you wont have to worry about the rotor speed infiltrating the cross overs and you can play slower rotor speeds too where the cross overs usually develop too late to make a bet.
yes. sometimes 2X crossover does not even materialize on very slow rotors.
[code]Nico let me try this on you…
Code: [Select]
Number Comb Dist
12
11 1211 18
10 1110 4
9 1009 9
8 908 26
6 806 31
5 605 9
3 503 16
2 302 8
1 212 27
8 128 9
6 806 31
3 603 25
1 301 25
9 109 4
6 906 20
3 603 25
12 312 35
6 1206 14
29 629 20
[/CODE]
So looking at the distances there is a major change or Knee Point from #1 to #9 when D=4 then your next #=6 so take that as your strike number so you add 18 for bounce & scatter and that gives you #22 as your target number only two away from #29 your finish number.
Sure I have backfitted to your example but try a few more like that and see how you go.
Keep winning
Mike.
but nobody explain how to note the correct revolution. If the deceleration is too big is easy to detect , but if it is not big how can i do it?If you want to detect some speciall ball revolution you can simply train and you will see that after 1000 attempts you will guess that pretty good without any device. I can do that with 90% accuracy, but i not use that, because think that here are more simple and more exact ways to play. Detecting right ball revolution is old method which can be good only on very tilted wheel, very rare who play nowdays this way. And other - if you know that wheel is exact 3 sec then you can use simply wheel as a timer. All timers are used more to detect right wheel speed, after knowing that all rest are simple.
I have posted this one before:
As we can see at pic 4 the beep/thump comes twice at the same spot in two following ball revoloutions. You then let the ball run to it passes the reference diamond at 12 oclock and read the reference number.
The same thing happens with the crossovers, only its the zero passings that forms the beep.
Its from one of Basieuxs books but i suspect he stole the idea from me because i mentioned it in a mail to him before his book was published. The original intention with Scott introducing thumper play, the thumper was intended for the rotor.