My play


#1

Hello.I would like to introduce myself.
My name in here will be oldtimer.I preface not to use my real name because not only forums members are watching this forum.I like being careful.
I am 62 years old and I am playing roulette more than 27 years.
I had no idea that the visual prediction was so wide known.I also had no idea that you all called it visual ballistics.I thought that I was the one of the rare cases that I had found this way a lot of years ago.
I found my visual prediction way by self.
My son found this forum and informed me.I do not know how to use the internet.Maby that was the reason why i didn’t t know all this time that this method was wide known.
I read all posts here and I understood how you all make a prediction.

Not bad at all.You are doing it almost like my way.
Only that you are doing one mistake that I can understand that can cost you loses sometimes.
And this mistake is happening because you are aiming at the drop point that it is stronger.
The tilted diamond as you all call it in here, is the mistake that can make you lose sometimes.
I will try to explain you why.

The jump of the ball is a factor that is vital in wining.
By choosing to aim at the diamond that the ball will fall the most of the times as a rule, is not a completely wise move to do. And this is the reason why you must not have problem to play in a wheel that had no dominant drop point. The odds that casinos provide in hitting a number are very ok.if betting 5 numbers per spin you need only 1 victory in 7 attempts.

Please allow me to give you all an example.

Let’s say that we are playing in a roulette that has these hits at the diamonds in 10 spins
3 at top d
2 at low d
4 at right d
1 at left d

With you way of visual ballistics you would play with the diamond at the right.
And who told you that the jump of the ball at the right d is playable?
What I am trying to say is that the quantity of the times that will hit 1 d is not the right key to play.
The key is the jump that the ball will make in these diamonds.
If we will see that the jump of the ball has a better pattern at the top d ,then we must aim at this one.
The jump of the ball is being produced by the spot that the ball will hit the diamond.Top part will make a wider and less manageable jump.A center hit will make a good pattern. A lower part hit will make the ball most of the times to stop almost at the pocket that was under the d.This was not a rule of thumb. Different ball and different kind of pockets (high, low, wide,not wide)will make deferent pattern, but there is always a pattern.
The victories should not be pleanty,but they should be stable to overcome the casinos edge in long term.
Also as you all know in some spins we win by luck ,so this is making things even better.
That is why I never cared to play in a wheel that has a strong fall off point.
Of course I would never choose the weakest one.
But in casinos wheels after 1998 as I can remember there were no tilted roulettes.
They know that players that use physics prefare the tilted roulettes so they removed them.
Today with my experience the 90 of the 100 roulettes are without a stronger drop point.

So the lesson of this post is that the jump of the ball will show us of which diamond to aim.

you must have a high sence of the particular rotation of the ball.In my case it is a very rare case to miss the correct moment.I think it is matter of training.
Some members in here they say that it is hard and cose it impposibe.This is not right.

Also the prediction with a roulette computer in a roulette that is it not tilted in my opinion is useless.The reason is that it adds the same jump no matter at which diamond the ball will hit.
Imagine the ball to hit our aiming diamond in 1 spin and the computer to make a mistake in that particular spin and predict with a remaining time that the ball will hit the other diamond .it will be a disaster.Now who can tell us when the ball will hit this diamond again and take the good advantage of the good jump of the ball?As I told u above only 1 diamond will be the key.In the older days ofcourse almost all diamonds hits could make the same jump because the balls that were used were big and heavier.Good old days!
And here is a story for you.
In the year 1987 I was in my best understandind I had developed my best skills of the game.
With the conditions that the roulettes were in that time I managed to closed 4 roulettes tables.They threw a black sheet on the table and they banned me forever in these 4 casinos.
The advantage now is smaller…Tiny I would say!Can you all read it properly and take the full of it???This is the question that you should all bother with.
It’s your choice.
I just wanted to share my experiences with you.


#2

Does thing think Forester of it?Possible that the ball can have some models of fall that repeat it?In the sketches that you have put on the site my roulet it would not be said.


#3

Hi old timer
and good post

I had simliar problem in XXXXXxx i had done quite an extensive scatter chart and found it stupid to also record the diamond with the LEAST HITS as i would be setting FF on the most DD,well what you know same thing as you describe, the DD MOST of the time the ball just fell off like a sack of tatties onto the the pocket directly under the DD (OR VERY CLOSE) it made my scatter chart practily useless, second DD scatter was close to six,overall my scatter chart showed me plus 11 was the best pick so i take your point and welcome you to the forum

please share more of your ex ¼erience with the gang here

BTW,i dont think you totally understnd how the FF really works. your entilted to your opion sure…but to say a roulette computer is uselees on a wheel that has NO DD is totally wrong.Sure if the player adds an offset of say plus 11(tilted wheel)in my case it would actually give me a slight disadvantage. On a level wheel with truely even hits on all diamonds would have to use 11 for offset as we cant differenciate on any dimond
Just an obsevation and no harm meant

if you care to discuss anything here on the forum please dont hesitate its good to have experienced Men like you at the forum

ok all the best :-* :-*

Securityman


#4

Forester has told me that FF works on base to different principles from those used for VB.Forester you have explained from some part on that principles it works?I am interested. :o


#5

That’s a million dollar point.

***Only that you are doing one mistake that I can understand that can cost you loses sometimes.

SOMETIMES

It may be but it may be not.

Why would top diamond have so better ball jumps?
If it does will it be worth switching from 3 o’clock.

With reasonable predictions targeting 3 o clock D
We get
In 10 spins we may get
4 stright hit

3/2 on 12 o clock (12 o clock hit once ¼ shorter and once ¾ extra )
2/2 on 6
We get 6.5 in total accurate hits

From 12 o clock (top) we get
3
4/2
½
Total 5.5acurate hits

By targeting specific ball speed in between x amount of rotations to the end and x-3/4,
if we are very accurate (this is same as first sample with higher accuracy, perhaps we may get amount of hits in between 6.5 to 8.5)

We get
4
3
2/2
½
8.5 hits

6.5 to 8.5 sure is better then 5.5

Of course if ball scatter is not drastically different from diamond to diamond.

Do you have any charts to show the differences that scatter on less DD is better then on main DD?

On a leveled wheel we really shouldn’t get different ball scatter on each diamond.
But on roulette anything can happen.
More we notice know and understand better we can handle it.
Bottom line is always , try and see.


#6

Thank you security man for the welcoming.
The thing that I said about the computers was only of what I have understood from all the posts and the videos that I saw in here.I think that I have
understood how computer calculates ,but if I am wrong then my judgment is not correct. So I will not say anything about computers anymore .
My section is only about visual prediction.

Gigino I really did not understand what u are trying to say.

There are a lot of ways and tricks that you can use in a visual prediction.
5 of them are the basic weapons that you must have .
1)have strong feeling of the correct moment of prediction.In other words the right rotation of the ball to hit your aiming diamond or diamonds.(I will
explain what I mean by that)Without it and even if u know all the other things correct , you just have a machine gun without eyes to use it.
2) You must know the wheel layout like the back of your hand
3) You must develop a rhythm to count every 1 second. I never used in my life metronomes as I read in here that players do for rotor calculation.
4) You must know the relationship of the numbers that will be in the advantage positions when the ball will hit any of the diamonds.
This is something that none of you in here have ever mentioned!
5) You must be able to bet 5 numbers in 2 seconds. I never betted more than 5 numbers.

Here is an other lesson from me.

Every roulette has it s own pattern.
I never faced roulette without a pattern.Others had better patterns and was giving me bigger margin, others has smaller one. But every one of them
had a pattern.
In my early years I was playing only at the easy roulettes, where the margin was bigger and easy to spot.
After a lot of successes in these easy roulettes and after having a good bank of the Casinos money I wanted to try in the roulettes with a smaller
margin.

The key in these hard roulettes is observation, observation and more observation.
From my experience I can say that on average I need about 30 spins to observe clock and 30 anticlock direction to be able to find the correct patterns
of each direction.
I always play both directions. But the most of the times, except some rare cases, the patterns are different in clock and anticlock direction, so I must use deferent strategy and different aims.
The key in these hard roulettes is to be able to split your bets in 2 deferent advantage positions.
In other words u must take 2 predictions from different spots in a 2 deferent rotations of the ball.
E.g. Aim at the top diamond: the pattern is 12 pockets jump.
Aim at the lower diamond is 7 pockets jump.

You must be able to spot the where and when to look to take the predictions.

I knew that someone soon or later was going to ask about these jump patterns. This question was predictable. The reason is because you just all
miss the point that I was explaining in my first post.

I just saw your post and I do not have time now to explain this too, because I posted a lot of things above. In my next post I will try to explain you why
the jumps have always a good pattern in 1 diamond and this diamond could be the non tilted one.

I will just tell you in a quick answer.No wheel is perfect!
All wheels are tilted, but the tilt is not at the diamonds anymore.It is at the speeds that the ball is hitting the diamonds. In other words the power tha
the ball will arrive in that diamond and hit it.

In the old days ofcourse the tilt was so strong that it was affecting the ball in hitting 1 or 2 particular diamonds.
Now days the only that is left from the slight tilt is the power that the ball trends to hit each diamond.


#7

thx for such an informative post

i followed it well,but could you give an exact explaintion of what you mean by pattern

as i said before ,i totally understnd we will on a tilted wheel diferent scatter pattern/chart for each doamond that i have sstudied and seen

really intersested on your viesw on level wheel

ok oldtimer shake a leg and get back soon

here not all new members get a kiss from me but what the heck i like you,so here :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*

Your

Securiyman


#8

I will try now to explain to you a situation pattern and the reason why it is not always wise to aim at the diamond that it is showing that the ball is hitting most if the times.

Like this pattern there are more patterns, but I can t show you all.It is impossible.
You must find them in every roulette, if I would tell you all patterns it would take 10 pages and maybe I would forgot some of them.

So situation.(always clock spins)
The roulette is tilted at the Top D.
This means that the ball will “try” in every spin to land at the Top D,but because conditions(tilts) are not strong like in the old days,the ball will not land every time at the Top D.
That does not mean that the roulette is not tilted!
The tilt will be obvious because of the speeds(power) that the ball will hit every D.

From this situation this pattern will happen.

The ball will be landing on the Top D with speed A.
The ball will be landing on the Right D with speed slower than speed A because the ball will “try” to land on the Top but because of not so strong tilt the ball will pass the Top D(that it is the tilted one) and will hit the Right D with less speed,less power.
The ball will be hitting the left D with faster speed than speed A,because the ball was “trying” to hit the Top D(tilted one) but because of not so strong tilt the ball landed on the previous D .
In that situation(pattern) we will consider the Lower D as a “dead” D.But in some situations even this D can have an advantage,but this is more complicated and I will not try to confuse you more because I can understand that these patterns are new to all of you.

So we know
Top D speed A
Right D speed A
Low D= dead (in this example)
A is the tilt value.

So from this observation we know that 3 deferent patterns in ball jump will happen.
Because each ball speed means different spots of hitting the Ds.

So from this point we observe and find the Best (more stable) jump pattern and we will AIM at the best pattern…

Even if the ball is hitting more on Top D a better ball jump pattern may happen at the Right D ,because the ball hit there will less power and the ball is jumping more manageable. That was just a case…maybe the left D will show better behavior …
Anything can happen…every roulette is deferent.


#9

ok so we agree,

i refer you too my earlier post when i played in xxxxxxx

but as for level wheel im a bit confused as we cant define a particular diamond and all strikes on average should be the same as wheel has no apperent DD

OK Sure , we have lees of an advantage but anvantage we do have also with a wheel which shows us three diamonds getting even hits

ok thx for posting ,maybe you could elaberate more on level wheel prediction for us

Securityman


#10

Thanks for taking time for sharing your play.

I find it very interesting and informative .

Please do continue.

Regards
MAX


#11

No roulette is perfect.
When you call a roulette leveled is because you just see how many times the ball hit the Ds.

The how many times a D will be hit has nothing to do with a correct Visual prediction.

In an other situation as I posted before we must split out bets.

I will give a quick example.

Pattern(always clock spins)
Top D hit =18 pockets jump average
Right D hit =6 pockets jump avarage

When its time to make prediction aiming the Top D you look at the position of the wheel that the ball will make 18 pockets jump.
In the next rotation you are making 1 more prediction by looking really quick in an other place to take advantage of the 6 pockets jump if the ball will land on the Right D.
There is nothing bad in splitting the bets. In fact is a really good thing.

Other observations are for Top D and for Low D(opposite Ds) ,or for Right D and Left D.

I will give you a real example that I faced yesterday.

Roulette pattern. In 20 anti clock spins

Top D : 4 hits
Low D :5 hits
Left D : 8 hits
Right D : 3 hits

With your way you would Aim at the Left D(8 hits )

But look what was really happening…

Top D jump : 17,11,spinner,26
Low D jump : 7,2,11,9
Left D jump : spinner , 12 , spinner , 30 , 21 , spinner , spinner , 0
Right D jump: spinner, 6, 22,4

Can you understand which D I chose to AIM?

What if the Left D has more hits? Do you see a jump pattern? No

But if you take a look at the Low D…can you see a pattern?
Of course you can.

I started playing and in the same time I was observing if the pattern was continuing to happen. You must never find the pattern and play only this! In mean time maybe another pattern will happen or maybe the existed pattern will finish!

The key:after making the predictions observe ,observe and observe again.

So by playing I observed that the Right D was having a nice patter too, with an average jump of 5 pockets.
So I was splitting the bets.

I was not caring If the ball would hit the Low or the Right D,because I had the bets in both places in an advantage position according to this Roulette pattern.

Also who told you that when the ball was not hitting the Ds that I wasn t winning some spins with a little luck?

I just need 1 victory in 7 attempts to be near to even…It is not hard

VP (visual prediction) is like a sport.Like chess or golf or any game that we need to have a strategy .
It does need skills and correct judjment.


#12

In a previous post you mentioned that to “have strong feeling of the correct moment of prediction is very impotent. In other words the right rotation of the ball to hit your aiming diamond or diamonds.”

Would you be so kind to explain it more.

Regards
Max


#13

I do not think that I have something to explain in that.

If the correct prediction will be at the 4th rotation you must not predict in any other than the 4th.

thats all.

After some training ,the brain can spot the speeds of the ball.Even if something strange is happening like the ball now in close to the correct speed but it is a little faster or slower this is an indication that the ball will do an extra rotation or 1 less(if the wheel has very strong tilt)or that the ball is going to land in an other D.

I can not teach you anything about that,it is matter of skills.


#14

Thanks for the reply…

My understanding of VB is only in the infant stage and your reply answered my question.

Regards
MAX


#15
Top D : 4 hits Low D :5 hits Left D : 8 hits Right D : 3 hits

With your way you would Aim at the Left D(8 hits )

But look what was really happening…

Top D jump : 17,11,spinner,26
Low D jump : 7,2,11,9
Left D jump : spinner , 12 , spinner , 30 , 21 , spinner , spinner , 0
Right D jump: spinner, 6, 22,4


All together is 20 spins
Your low diamond has 5 hits
If we divide 20 by 4 diamonds, we can see that 5 hits is what we should expect.
In other words you are saying; you can play perfectly leveled wheel where each of 4 V diamonds in 20 spins will get 5 hits.

Next you are saying that scatter" Low D jump : 7,2,11,9" on your low diamond is not statistic but pattern that happened. (sure it is, there is no ball scatter to stop 1:5 pockets) It also means that after for spins that ball jumped from low diamond (7,2,11,9) in next 4 spins it may “jump spinner , 12 , spinner , 30 , 21 , spinner , spinner , 0”.

If you play next 4 spins you would lose, you have no higher amount of hits to diamond you target your prediction. Good pattern can move to most dominant diamond and you even do not take advantage of that. You can’t chase patterns, because you never know when they come, how long they last and when they will disappear. If you do reverse engineering, they yes it will work.

We need total ball jumps distribution, for example on 100 or few hundreds spin.
Sure we can split data for each diamond, but then we need to include and ball behavior on each diamond and on different ball speed.
If we split ball jumps form each diamond and analyze it, I do not see reason why it would be so drastically changed, especially where distribution per diamond hit is as you were presenting.
DO YOU HAVE ANY DATA?

Perhaps if we look 20 hits where ball hits first diamond 15 times and another one 5 times.
We may get wider angles how ball hitting the first diamond.
It may be narrower on second diamond but what is the point of playing it if we will get only 5 hits on that, and we can’t have ball scatter and accuracy of prediction within few pockets.

To switch from diamond that is getting 8 hits to diamond that is getting 5 hits you would need to have statistic that ball jumping on 5 hits diamond is double better then from diamond which getting 8 hits. Also because you are getting only 5 hits on that diamond you must have ball jumps better then 1:8.

You are playing 5 pockets.
You get hit on your diamond every 4 spins.
That is 20 units played.
When you get hit the question is will the ball stop within your 5 pockets.
If it does you are winning but if it stops every second time when the ball hits your D you will win once every 40 units played, which actually is loss. And that is if your ball scatter is really rally well where the ball once in 10 spins stops on particular number (1:10).

Bottom line is that by getting 5 hits on your selected diamond you must have ball that constantly stops as you explained in your sample data (Low D jump : 7,2,11,9)
And that also requires that your prediction every time is within few pockets of accuracy.


#16

Forester you posted :In other words you are saying; you can play perfectly leveled wheel where each of 4 V diamonds in 20 spins will get 5 hits.

Who told you that this wheel was perfectly leveled?
You are confused. Like Security man and that is the reason that I am here. To help you with that. If you do not need any help ,then it is ok by me.

I have posted above that " a wheel is leveled for all of you in this forum ,when the ball is landing equal in all Ds.
This is a mistake.
All wheels have tilt(that we can take advantage of)
I do not care if the ball pass the tilted D,because I know that passing the tilted STOP point(vertical D)it means that it will stop with less speed(power)
at the next STOP point with PARTICULAR speed(power),and this is giving me a sweet scatter pattern.
Now days the tilt is not strong. And the ball reasonably can not fall most of the times from the same D.
But it hits the Ds with specific speed.Read my post above about 1 pattern.

As for your questions.
Who told you that I bet on every spin?
When I am identifying that a ball speed is not going to hit my aiming D (because it was faster or slower than my aiming speed)I do not play that spin
OR I am playing it but with an other calculation about an other aiming D.I already posted that above.
It is all matter of phisics.SPEEDS and POSITIONS.

I am using rotor indications in relation with the ball to be able to identify the speeds of the ball.Have you even done that???

Also in your example of probability you are forgetting that some of the spins even the spinner ones you will win by luck.

Also who told you that I am playing flat?

There are a lot of things that you do not know as I can understand from your posts.
You just play with a simple way: aim at the tilted D.
In 1985 this was OK.
Now it is not.
Casinos are developing.
Are you?


#17
I asked you questions and presented facts there is no need to be arrogant. So I will explain one by one again. (Forester you posted :In other words you are saying; you can play perfectly leveled wheel where each of 4 V diamonds in 20 spins will get 5 hits.

Who told you that this wheel was perfectly leveled?
You are confused. Like Security man and that is the reason that I am here. To help you with that. If you do not need any help ,then it is ok by me.

I have posted above that " a wheel is leveled for all of you in this forum ,when the ball is landing equal in all Ds.
This is a mistake.
All wheels have tilt(that we can take advantage of))

When in 20 spins you pay diamond that has 5 hits and the other 3 diamonds have remaining 15 hits. It means that you are playing with same odds as on leveled wheel.
It means your targeted diamond in average will get hit once every 4 spins.
So you do not take any advantage if the wheel has tilt or not, since on leveled wheel in average you will get same hits on that diamond.
On most wheels in casino with last 4 revolutions to go you will have only 40 ms difference in ball speed that you need to judge to be able to hit your particular diamond.
For example 1300 -1340ms ball speeds.

***As for your questions. Who told you that I bet on every spin? When I am identifying that a ball speed is not going to hit my aiming D (because it was faster or slower than my aiming speed)I do not play that spin OR I am playing it but with an other calculation about an other aiming D.I already posted that above. It is all matter of phisics.SPEEDS and POSITIONS.***

Nobody told me, but I did not expect someone to claim he can judge ball speed within 40 ms accuracy. Now from your previous writing I can see that from that 40 ms difference you also will know if the ball will hit top or bottom part of your diamond. For that you will need accuracy of 10 ms. By my knowledge people have problem predicting particular ball rotation where the gap is 160 ms.

I am using rotor indications in relation with the ball to be able to identify the speeds of the ball. Have you even done that???
Maybe long time ago when I did not know anything better. Using rotor as an reference to be able to measure ball is very wrong. If you do not believe then tell me that and I will ask you few questions.
Also in your example of probability you are forgetting that some of the spins even the spinner ones you will win by luck.
Since when spinners will give us advantage? The point was that on your diamond that hits once every 4 spins you can't have advantage, if so, why to play it.
Also who told you that I am playing flat?

It is irrelevant; I am only trying to find out how you create advantage as an AP.

But if it is truth that during the spin you can precisely know if the ball is within 40 ms of your targeted ball speed then nobody can say you can’t have an advantage.

***There are a lot of things that you do not know as I can understand from your posts. You just play with a simple way: aim at the tilted D. In 1985 this was OK. Now it is not. Casinos are developing. Are you?**

No I am to busy hunting crocodiles. I use this site only to sell crocodile’s prsuto.


#18

I never posted that spinners will give me or anybody an advantage.
haven t you ever won from a spinner?This what I am talking about.
It is not sure that If the ball will not land on your aim and will not do the scatter that you need that this spin was 100% a losing spin.

As for ms and numbers I do not care and I have never thought about it.
I just see from rotor indications(pockets) if the ball has a good or a bad chance to land on my aims.And from this indication I do not bet or I bet or
I am changing my aims.

If you can not seperate the rotations timings then I am sorry,I can not do anything about it

In my play the 7th rotation is the starting point where my indication starts.The 6th is the end of the indication( conclusion).the 5th is a gap
between my betting to be able to do the calculations in my head and the 4th is the prediction moment.
That is all that I can tell you.

It is a very rare case to miss the correct rotation.With my experience + the rotor idications it is almost impossible to miss the correct moment.

I do not know anything about crocodiles.So i am afraid that I can not help you with that.


#19

Sure I can win with spinner but we are talking here about advantage play.

On question how your advantage is created if on 20 spins you have only 5 hits on your targeted diamond, you listed spinners, and non flat betting.

“Also in your example of probability you are forgetting that some of the spins even the spinner ones you will win by luck.
Also who told you that I am playing flat?”

That doesn’t create advantage.

If I understand you right you are saying

Instead of diamond that gets 8 hits you will be targeting diamond that gets 5 hits (in 20 spins).

You also saying because on that diamond may be pattern of good scatter, you do not say scatter is constantly so good so the ball always stops within few pockets but the scatter is good for spins you going to play but not explaining how do you know that it will be good.

.
Obviously even if you have perfect prediction every time and if ball is jumping within 10 pockets you can’t have an advantage except if you avoid 15 spins and play only 5 that is going to hit your diamond.

It is hard even if you have perfect laser measurements to predict exact hits on singe diamond when there is no effect of tilt on that diamond.
If difference of time rotation makes in 5 rotations to the end and 4 rotations to the end is 160ms. Like one rotations 1.3 s and next one 1.46s and only ¼ of ball speeds will hit your diamond that is how I come to 40 ms. (160/4) . That’s all.

Do not worry about crocodiles, once you have experience it’s easy to spot and catch them.


#20

If you read properly in my above post for that game that i did in this roulette, I did not played only with the 1D.

read again and you will see that as the game was developing I used a second aim(D) too.,because I found a second pattern advantage .

I am sorry if your kind play is poor (only 1 dimention) for the existing condidtions.
That does not mean that there is not a more advanced game.

If you feel that I am a lier or something then it is better not to post here again.
I just wanted to help you with some issues,because I read that you all play with a primary Visual Prediction method that it is not enough these days.

its your call.