Has anyone bought Jafco's system?

Advanced roulette play
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We can call it teckniqe or analysis, whatever. Its a calculation of where the profitablest place to read the prognosis when you can expect a large drop zone. It will work on all kind of wheels, but will of course be weakened as the wheels get more diffycult.

OK, I asked simple question. How does he play it differently then one pin game?
Still no answer.

I claim that he plays it same as one pin game and that he even teaches wrong to select always first diamond when diamond with the most hits needs to be selected.
It means or me or him lacks understanding.

If we select most dominant diamond even if it is second one we lose nothing but we gain because we get more spot on hits. And overlapping is still happening.
So we may have 60 spot on and 40 close because of overlapping. By his explanation he says that it is better to have 40% spot on and 60 % from overlapping. Overlapping is a fact nothing to do with his system since he doesn’t define any technique to separate straight hits, also it will happen regardless which diamond we select.

The cards are made for the training wheel that he is using, obviously they probably needs adjusting on wheels with a different scatter and decelleration, but i think most people won`t use the cards at all when they get more experienced, but you have to remember that someone who is just starting out, is NOT experienced. So the card is an okay reminder when one is standing in front of the kitchen table, TV or computer to the left, trying to predict the numbers and also place them on the homemade felt placed on the table before a possible NMB. (Preparing to learn sector betting without the dealers help)

I understand that, and that is what I said on the start. It is good only for slow people so they can entertain themselves, there is not much use of it in real casino, simply because results will not match.

But i do understand why he is using an easy wheel for learning. If he had used a semi tiltet Cammegh, no beginner would ever be able to even understand what VB was all about because there would be way too many spins that came out different than what they were supposed to.

LOL , are you joking, you want to tell me that with estimated ball speed where difference in between rotations is only 120 ms as on Cammegh he can play 2-3 pins almost leveled wheel.
He can’t play even one pin.
Get real.

What makes me concern is your misunderstanding. Or excuse me if I am wrong. Jefco said his system can handle 1,2,3 pins game and you accept it as his system feature, when it has nothing to do with his system. You tell me which VB doesn’t do it?
Is VB which more precisely defines particular revolution is in some way disadvantaged if compared to someone who only estimating it as jefco.

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What i like about it, is that no one else, including you, teaches how to get round a 3 pin drop zone in a profitable way. I think you need to dig a little deeper in the overlap.
I know your view on traditinal VB, remember Jafcos system does not predict any different than laurances or Kaisans system, so im not gonna start a fight about that. I know what traditional VB can do, what you think can`t be done is up to you and i have given up explaining things again and again, so lets just leave it at that. Sometimes you too stubborn to see past an obstacle you have decided is a main fault to something.

As for the card thing, i can accept that people need a guide for it in the beginning, aparrentley you can`t. Well, what the hell, calling a beginner slow is not that sympathetic. We all have to learn from some point.

End of story on my behalf.

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Kelly I really start to worry about your understanding.
What Jefco calls 3 pin game is not what you say" teaches how to get round a 3 pin drop zone in a profitable way"

Infect ,the name 3 pin is misleading, It is again 2 pin but opposite diamonds.
Same as for 2 pin game with particular rotor speed, if the ball makes 3 rotations or 2.25 result will be close.

Same applies to faster rotor, if ball makes 3 rotations or 2.5 results will be close.
So it is not 3 dominant pins (diamonds) as you were thinking, but it is again 2 but on oposite sides.

And again, it is nothing to do with his system.
There is nothing to master with it, it’s simple, it’s happening or not.

Since Jefco explains that in particular situations hits on 2 opposite pins may produce similar results, what about pin in middle. It would be logical that from 3 dominant pins middle one gets most of hits. And guess what? It opuses results from other 2 pins. Ouch.

Calling it 3 pin game is misleading. First time you start talking about it I thought it is something worth looking.

But hey, if someone wants to learn principles of tilted wheel from staarting point of “Tabula Rasa” then YES, Jefco made nice explanation. Very nice in steps!

But soon ,you will look to find tilted wheel prediction system that can identify particular ball revolution, with better accuracy then just estimating it.
And go for something more advanced then looking in to cards that are made only for fast decelerating wheel.

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Viper, buying just one system doesnt help you, and it doesnt even matter who’s you buy, but all it matters is how you use it and how good you are at using it. Practise and Practise, these guys have been in here for ages and they have almost each of them ended up making their own system :), hopefully you will to, before buying any systems i susggest you do as much research as possible, look at free systems, practise, try to come up with your own methods, read about VB masters, and the list goes on… I wish you the best of luck and i remember when i was in a situation like you =). good luck.

Forester, the secrets about jafco’s system are ofcourse going to be confidential bro. When he sold me his system, his only polite request was confidentiality. He trusted me, so i really cant break his trust. But you have every right of your opinion. =)

Peace out.

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@yours

that exactly what i said…that i need a lot of practice(as any new)but i must practice to a system that is correct…couse i don t wan t o make the predictions and the right predicted number to be exactly in the opositte side of the weel every time,couse the system was wrong…

i have the apetite to dizzy my eyes and my brain all day ,in order to find my tune and flow…but i must do it with the right way …

@kelly
even from the talking u do with forester i am strarting learning things about VB
thanks
and as always u are a gentelman

@forester
i am learning things from u too
thanks

i am just a little sad,couse the right thing would be to be just 1 way(method.system)to predict the number.

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vIPER good exists because evil is there, light exists because darkness is there, there is always a debate, every 1 has different point of views and that is why we have such forums, first of all you should read what visual ballistic is about, and then you research into people offering visual ballistics, watch their videos, and then you do a lil bit of your research and im sure you will be happy with all that. im sure you can buy laurence, jafco and forester VB2, in less then the price of a ffa :slight_smile:

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LOL i shouldnt be in that group, my vb is for free, but as i said it at start, it will be suprise if one of 100 people can find use of it ,since they wil not understand it.

Until now I did not find single person that plays same way VB, but similar.

And I am the worst one because I play completely different then anybody else. :-\

***Forester, the secrets about jafco's system are ofcourse going to be confidential bro. When he sold me his system, his only polite request was confidentiality.

Is that so? I assume that he sold system and to the others as confidential or they missing something important.

Yous, it is not my opinion it is fact that is happening on tilted wheel.
It was there before me, Kelly , Laurance or anybody else. It has nothing to do with anybodies system including Jefco’s. It is a false claim that his system does it, if it applies to any system.

I ask few times, tell me what I said or explained wrong.
I would like if viper buys it and then start putting this all together, only then he wil understand.

Let me format so called 3 pin game for you.

If we have 3 dominant diamonds A,B,C, and D one that most likely will never be involved.
We can expect something as this
A 20% hits,
B 50% hits
C 20% hits
D 10% hits.

If I play this I would straight go for B, if I use FF no problem at all, if I use my VB2
I will get advantage on B diamond, and if rotor is slow I will get something on A and on C as well, because VB2 is the only system that increases prediction based on ball speed. So if ball is stronger and it passes point B already it will be predicted by 5-6 extra pockets more. Such ball because is faster will come in shorter time to point B, (lets say 4 pockets) so when it comes to pin C will be close to proper prediction. Same applies if ball was going for pin A.

In Jefcos case, (3 pin game) he will go for one of pins A or C. If he goes for A and ball hits A he has good prediction, but he has also good enough prediction if rotor is fast and the ball hits C pin.
But he has huge mistakes if the ball goes for pin B which will have the most hits.
Someone may say, still it isn’t bad, but there is more…

68

It can be boiled down to that we don`t want the bet to be stranded if the ball misses the main pin. If the ball passes the target pin that would have given a perfect hit, your bet is 100% lost unless you can make the ball bounce backwards, because your betting area will be on its way, away from the ball.

You might wanna consider what he writes about wheel speed and 3 pin games.

You keep saying that it is not his system but something that happens in the wheel. Correct, but he has made people aware of that in writing, you didn`t. Laurance has to some extend, but the trouble there is that laurance is extremely intelligent and has explained it in a way that for him seems logical and straight forward where in fact, you really need to know what is going on in the wheel before you understand what he is saying.

Personally i dont play the 3 pin wheels as Jafco would, i wouldnt be able to tell you which would be my aiming pin before i have analysed the tracking. A could be the main pin if the bounce was stronger than it was on B because that would show up as a main area some 6 - 12 pockets after B pin, and as such also receive hits from the B pin. In such a case the bounce would probably be down to a minimum on the C pin and would add hits to the main area too. Or it could be something else. I wouldnt be too concerned which pin the aim was at, because other factors would add hits to the main area. But basicly, i wouldnt want my bet placed BEHIND the ball when it drops, because then the bet is permanently lost. It should be in a suitable position in front of the ball as the ball comes down from the rim and diamond and bounces forward towards the bet numbers.

69

PS: Viper, if you go to my blog and go to the Steve Forte post, you will find a picture of a table that Steve Forte made that explains pretty well why there are different “clocking keys” (reading pints) for different wheel speeds.

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Forester, i totally agree with you that it happens on tilted wheels, but as i said there are always 2 sides to the coin. Your opinion and analysis might well be true, but all im going to say is that i always have a good time playing with your ffz, i love it. The same goes for his VB, its fun has a different approach to the game, and in my case that worked as well. I just want to mention 1 more point that the house has 2.7% edge, you onli need to be slightly accurate to beat them, some 1 said somethning bout missing the pin and there fore going far away from your prediction, but im pretty sure your gonna be in the same half of the wheel and any DECENT AND PROFESSIONAL player will tell you that, it is good enough. =), come on guy be cool

Live life, fuck tight. =)

Yous.

71
You keep saying that it is not his system but something that happens in the wheel. Correct, but he has made people aware of that in writing, you didn`t. Laurance has to some extend, but the trouble there is that laurance is extremely intelligent and has explained it in a way that for him seems logical and straight forward where in fact, you really need to know what is going on in the wheel before you understand what he is saying.

Kelly that is not the truth.

Look my video, about tilted wheel, read myVB2 and explanation what is happening if the ball pass DD and goes for another one (2 pin). The difference is that he explained it wrongly saying that always first diamond needs to be selected when it is irrelevant and diamond with the most hits needs to be selected.
So called 3 Pin game I did not explain and I will never explain because it is complete misunderstanding, as I wrote earlier.

Why not call it 4 pin game, and say well if you miss your targeted diamond the ball will hit another one and your number will be there if rotor is at particular speed. That would mean even if you play leveled wheel you should have advantage when applying his basic approach. Sue, sure.

He calls it 3 pin games saying the ball will hit 3 pins but ignoring one (which actually on 90% of wheels will get the most hits) and looking results only on 2 pins which he chooses.

**"Personally i don`t play the 3 pin wheels as Jafco would."

Sure, you do not play because it brings less advantage then if you played middle pin.

*A could be the main pin if the bounce was stronger than it was on B because that would show up as a main area some 6 - 12 pockets after B pin, and as such also receive hits from the B pin. In such a case the bounce would probably be down to a minimum on the C pin.

Lol, how that can be? And anyway even if that is the case did he explain it?
No he did not, so player by selecting to take advantage of 2 opposite pins in most cases will be worst of. Jefco in his material (even calls it 3 pin game) somehow forgot to explain what will happen if the ball hits remaining pin which is in middle. So how it can be 3 pin game?

Yous, yes house advantage is 2.7%, and in theory you need much higher advantage so in real play you can keep it and be able to recognize where the advantage is.
.

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Pj i copy your text, from post in wrong section. It belongs more in here.

I have attached another video posted by the other contender. Again, it’s not that impressive. The FF (FFV) beats them all, simply because it achieves excellent results even when the wheel travel distance is constantly changing. Kelly, I would totally agree with you if the video’s being presented were ‘for educational purposes’ but they are not. They are there to show how efficient his methodology is and therefore to convince people to buy. As you can see for youself, you don’t need anything but your eyes to beat that wheel.

Cheers
PJ


I would agree with it.

Videos are far from reality.

Manuel, did run FFA in “accuracy 1” (earlier prediction since the ball decelerates very fast) to predict his spins and got like 1:6 hit rate.

I consider Jefcos material more as an explanation of tilted wheel theory then as an effective system.

However Yous did meet with Jefco, and he is happy with it.

Considering that Yous is new, that he also bought GW system (disappointed) and that he also owns FFZ I can only accept his claim that Jefco explanations are helpful.

In addition by my opinion publishing any video or material about system which is not average of real capabilities, is an act of deceiving public.

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Well, i think you give him wrong intentions and i find it ridicoulous to match VB skills with computer prediction on a video where the tester also has the opportunity to rewind and optimize. A computer should of course be able to predict better especially on a video. But as Laurance also once stated, he would be happy to take on most computers in a competition in a casino, as long as they would let him bet up to the last 3 or 4 rounds.
After all no one in the roulette seller world has ever published a video with a wheel that matches casino conditions as we see them today. Some haven`t got their own wheels and is not posting any real videos at all and the rest has only older style wheels.

Im off to London in June and i also might drop by and see Jafco, merely for a player to player chat rather than a buyer/seller chat. Since i already have his system that wouldn`t make any sense either.

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Truth, so if FF is struggling in real conditions what are the chances of basic VB skill.

Well, i think you give him wrong intentions and i find it ridicoulous to match VB skills with computer prediction on a video where the tester also has the opportunity to rewind and optimize.

You can rewind and optimize as much as you want, the point is that computer can with accuracy of few ms define position of ball during the spin where VB ca not and in Jefco’s case he only estimates it.

It is easy to select 5 spins and to show high hit rate on any wheel, but what with remaining spins. How many of them he did not estimate correctly.

But as Laurance also once stated, he would be happy to take on most computers in a competition in a casino, as long as they would let him bet up to the last 3 or 4 rounds.

So what, people can say whatever they want. If he is a miracle to clearly see and notice fast rotor speed on 2 sec / rotation with accuracy of 50 ms needed for his VB to be reasonably effective, I can’t argue with that.
I can only say that with such rotor speed I can’t even do it with accuracy of 500ms /rotation without any device. Simply because if I use counting as a reference for time I will have deviation of about 100ms/s. For him to achieve 50 ms on 2 sec rotor he would need accuracy in counting of 25 ms.

Stefano did, his wheel was very common and still is. However his predictions did not match hits to rotor which is objective of prediction. In addition he supplies DVD but users couldn’t match results in any way, since each time each spin was differently predicted.

The only and the shortest way of system effectiveness are testing it on various video spins. Where everybody can get same result with advantage regardless which part of wheel is targeted as a reference. If system can do that then most likely it will perform and on different conditions. Will it perform on particular conditions nobody can know until the system is applied? That especially applies to leveled wheel approach.

I am thinking to make some spins, and I have no intention to display the best hits and say look I have 1:6 when I know that real result might be far from that.

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With todays scatter, you might very well have a 5 number sector rather than a 1 or 2 pocket main sector as a scatter peak. Sometimes even after 500 trials, there are 2 main areas of 5 numbers with 6 - 7 pockets between. So trying to predict 1 single number as the correct one would be somehow more of an opinion rather than a fact. The VB player would have a secondary analyse that shows the scatter from each diamond, so if he gets a hint of the strike diamond early in the spin he might also have a clue on the scatter. But his bet on a real wheel, would still be an estimate somewhere in the most likely strike distance from the strike diamond. It would only in rare cases be a spot on 1 single number with a high strike rate.

Laurance don`t play 2.0 sec wheels, if i remember correct his favourits are between 2.5 and 3.0 but thats mostly due to the conditions where he plays, its not something he searches for.

I haven`t done any accuracy tests on Stefanos videos, strike number versus outcome number versus prediction number is only 1 of the possible cross references you can make. There are a few more so you get 3 - 4 different further acid tests, that you again can overlap on each other so a prediction pattern will form if there are any.

The only problem i have with computer play is that i know the behaviour of the clocker and the bettor so i bet i will be able to spot a team within 30 - 40 spins. And if i can do it, so can surveillance. I got a friend in surveillance in a Danish casino and he is by all means no expert in computer play, but he WOULD be able to spot a computer player from what he knows already. So my biggest issue is that i find it hard to see a bright and long future as a computer player. With Laurances acoustic system, there are a better opportunity to get a way with VB play because staring in the wheel is a thing of the past. The same goes (to some extend) for Jafcos method and Basieuxs MGM method.

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Last but not least…

Cheers
PJ

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I think Mark Howe already explained that and dealer signature.

The only problem i have with computer play is that i know the behaviour of the clocker and the bettor so i bet i will be able to spot a team within 30 - 40 spins.

Then VB player can be spotted within 3-4 spins.

With Laurances acoustic system, there are a better opportunity to get a way with VB play because staring in the wheel is a thing of the past.

Rubbish, he still needs to watch rotor.
Acoustic is also nothing more then estimation, and it can’t be better then listening and observing. Since he is targeting very late rotations then is easier but and difference in between rotations is greater. 3 Rotations before then ball drops the ball will be as 1500ms per rotation which means result will be around opposite side.

It is not even better then what Snowman suggested. Estimate it as early as you can.
If you do it when the ball is about 0.5 sec you have a frame of 6 ball rotations to make same error as if someone predict in last rotations. At least he would have prediction with reasonable time until NMB.

My VB2 requires the smallest amount of wheel watching and it can be done with peripheral observation. And it is 3 pin game more then any other system.

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If the VB ¨r is backroomed they wont find anything. The computer player will be banned weather he has won or not. But trust me, the way i play you wont suspect that im playing VB. Everything is considered. I do pay a small fee to the house to play that way, but i`ll live and i still keep the edge.

As for laurance, you really know how to make a short story long. He needs to look 2 - 3 sec. for the rotor speed and 2 - 3 secs. for the prognose and it does not have to be staring. He can place a few cover bets on Black and Red while reading the rotor etc. That keeps the dealer and pit busy while he gets the rotor speed. Its a pretty basic strategy for the seasoned player: Do something else while you are reading the critical data. I should probably shut up now.

What i meant was that patterns is out of the window.

As for your VB2 i still need someone who can explain the logic properly and why decelleration differences 13 - 15 secs out is much smaller than they are 4 - 5 revoloutions out. I still need an explanation on where and why i should look under the ball and why, where i look should be the correct spot. If i could rewind the spin and do it once again it would be pretty easy.
I asked a few of your members, but didn`t get a reply.

What snowman suggested is called the counting method and it works great with stable and calm rotor and ball speed conditions. Its probably THE most basic VB method that might still be considered as a VB method. There are at least 9 known methods.

Never mind, ill let you guys get on with shooting Stefano ducks in your pond. Dont mind me, im just an old grumpy fart.

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If the VB ¨r is backroomed they won`t find anything. The computer player will be banned weather he has won or not.

Never happened.

**As for laurance, you really know how to make a short story long. He needs to look 2 - 3 sec. for the rotor speed and 2 - 3 secs. for the prognose and it does not have to be staring. He can place a few cover bets on Black and Red while reading the rotor etc. That keeps the dealer and pit busy while he gets the rotor speed. Its a pretty basic strategy for the seasoned player: Do something else while you are reading the critical data. I should probably shut up now.

It applies to any advantage play, with difference that I do not play side bets.

As for your VB2 i still need someone who can explain the logic properly and why decelleration differences 13 - 15 secs out is much smaller than they are 4 - 5 revoloutions out. I still need an explanation on where and why i should look under the ball and why, where i look should be the correct spot. If i could rewind the spin and do it once again it would be pretty easy. I asked a few of your members, but didn`t get a reply.

Because everything is happening, per rotation not per second.
If rotation is 0.5 sec of course that next one will not be 0.7 s but most likely ~0.6s
if when the ball is 1.0 s next one is 1.2 s .
If you look it in ball change per second there is no change since 100 ms difference on 0.5 sec is equal to 200ms difference on 1 sec. So it is not that real ball deceleration changes if you look at it as distance / s^2.

You should look for number under the ball because it will be your reference number, same one as if you have prediction in exactly targeted ball revolution.
It is an effect created by using appropriate time where change on ball speed for that particular time does match rotor movement in same time. So regardless in which rotation we start we still get same reference number as we predicted in targeted ball revolution.
It is very simple.

Look as Snowmans suggestion, and let’s say he estimates with accuracy of 5 ball rotations.
When applying VB2 to that, practically there is no error (or the possible error is significantly reduced ) regardless in which of those 5 rotations we take sample.
It goes as this.
Lets say we apply time in first of those 5 ball rotations which is lets say 0.5s. We get reference number x.
If we misjudge and start it in next rotation for that time rotor moved by rotor speed (in pockets /s) divided by 0.5s. So if rotor was 10p/s it will move by 5 pockets.
But now we applying our reference time where the ball is slower ~o.6s. Therefore this ball will travel shorter distance and after our reference time elapses it will again point to number X. If we apply it in next rotation same applies. Estimation within 5 rotations even rotations are fast can still be few seconds difference. For that time rotor moves and it can move for almost full rotation, therefore prediction wouldn’t be any good. Applying VB2 corrects it.

I think I explained that, I even supplied spin and time required to make it applicable.
I do not know who you asked but obviously someone who did not spend time with it.
Even snowman had trouble understanding it but after explanation he did understand.

80

Forester, jafco updated his website, and he added quite a few links to various website, and even your forum. But he was suggesting, that it would be nice if you moved the roulette system reviews to an OPEN section where any and every body can read bout the reviews, this will help newbies and professionals alike, because they can get an unbiased fair review. If you keep the reviews under paid subscription, not every can see it, and it wouldnt be declared as a FAIR review.

Just an opinion.

Peace.