# Combined Dealers Signature, new prediction aproach

Let’s call it Combined Dealers Signature.
This is kind of visual prediction i never played but I like it and believe it may be effective.
I discuss it with one of members; it is the way he successfully played for some time, its combination of DS and myrulet E2 system made simple. Good idea from him and I believe after some analyses and practice I may start using it.

We all know basic DS.
Dealer throws ball from number “x” ball stops at number “y” distance from “x” to “y” is our DS value we expect the dealer to do always same distance.
On levelled wheel this has no chance to work, on a wheel with some degree of tilt it may work the point is how to make it work better.
(If you need more information there are detailed explanations on forum just search)
For that we need to understand factors that may change our DS value.

Of course it is ball spin strength and rotor speed. Since from start of spin we may have 15 to 25 sec if rotor is one pocket per sec faster it will change our outcome by 15-25 pockets.
So at first place is to get rotor adjustments right.
For simple explanation let’s say the dealer spins each spin 18 sec. long.
Rotor is 6 sec per rotation.
We need timer as FFZ has, and in such case the best would be to adjust it to 6 sec time intervals triggered by switch.
Spoin1
Dealer spins and at our DD diamond we have zero , we start the timer and after 6 seconds we get zap and rotor made a full ACW rotation. So we read zero as our reference number. In next 2x6sec rotor will make additional 2 rotations. Ball will hit DD and drop at zero.
Spin 2
Dealer spins and at our DD diamond we have zero , we start the timer and after 6 seconds we get zap and rotor made 5 pockets less. So it comes to number 28. Since 6 sec is 1/3 of spin and in that time rotor made 5 pockets less we can say that in next 6 sec it will make additional 6 less pockets and in last 6 sec. again 5 sec. Now we come to point as we play E2. We just multiply by 3 changes that we see on rotor. We started at 0, after 6 sec rotor is at 28 from zero to 28 is 5 pockets ACW, we add 5 for next 6 sec (we are at #9) and additional 5 for last 6 sec. and we get #33.
It is same adjustment as we do with E2 if you have problem understanding read about E2 it’s really simple and with this we do not need to use ball but only to observe changes on rotor. Of course in real game we will not count pockets just observe angle form 2 numbers and add it 2 times in direction we see it.
Most visual prediction use only 1-2 sec to time the rotor, even if we use timer for that we are not very accurate especially if we are predicting earlier in time, as with VB2.
Here we use 6 sec, it is long time and it gives us accurate readings. If spin is 18 sec we still have remaining 12 to place bets.

Alternatively we can set time to ¼ of spins total time (4.5 sec).
Then we need to add angle 3 times. But this setting lets us have something else and we can avoid adding angles.
If we start with particular number at vertical diamond then when we get zap we look position of our starting number within 2 vertical diamonds. Where actual distance of 9.25 pockets (we can say 9) represents full wheel rotation.
For example we start at zero at 12 o clock diamond and after zap zero is at position right in between ANY 2 vertical diamonds. It means opposite of zero, if it passes one diamond by ¼ it is ¼ of the wheel etc.
~4 sec. is still ok to observe rotor even if we predicting earlier. Because of easier observation It may be good idea to select time that also matches closely to time of one rotor rotations.

Of course this all is great if dealers spin the ball with same strength as in this example 18 sec long spin.
But what to do if he doesn’t and how to control it to be sure we are doing right thing.
Since we are using relatively long time to clock the rotor when we start timer we can simply count rotations.
For example in 6 sec of rotor timing we may count 10 rotations.
Next spin 10, next 10… then comes spin with 11 rotations.
We know that now ball is a bit faster spin will be longer. We can skip it or adjust.
What exactly one extra rotation means, I do to know exactly for now but definitely ball will travel for some time until it comes to 18 sec to the end so if ball is in CW direction and if we predicted #0 we can say if we started 1-2 sec later we would read 25 or 36 (somewhere there).
We actually need to convert differences of rotations in to time and approximate rotor movement for that change in time.

Hi Forester,

The following method is what I called my VB and DS combination. This is the way I use to play before I learnt your VB2 method. Maybe you could comment on this and maybe make it better?

In a nutshell:

Â· First things first. We have to qualify a dealer to see if we can exploit him or her. We do this by observing a couple of spins. We have a paper with a circle on it marked as a watch face. We could have two, one for CW spins and the other for CCW spins.
Â· We now observe the first CW spin. As the dealer releases the ball we count exactly to 4. When we reach 4, we look on the outside of the wheel where the ball is positioned at that time. (See the wheel as a clock face and the dealer releases at 6 O’ clock) So let’s say that at 4 seconds the ball was at 11 O’ clock. We now mark on the CW circle a cross at 11 O’ clock.
Â· For the CCW we do exactly the same as for the CW. In other words we wait for the dealer to release the ball, count to 4 and look at the position where the ball is. Forget about numbers at the moment. What we want to do is to find where the ball will be after 4 seconds on the outside of the wheel. Mark the position on your CCW circle with a cross.
Â· We can do this for 10 spins. 5 for CW and 5 for CCW
Â· We look now at the dominant area on the two diagrams where the ball will be after 4 seconds, for both CW and CCW.
Â· So let’s say that for CW spins the dominant area after 4 seconds is 11 O’ clock and for CCW it is 3 O’ clock.
Â· For explanation purposes we will only continue with CW spins but CCW obviously are done the same way.
Â· Ok, so CW spins we have a dominant 11 O’ clock area on the wheel after 4 seconds.
Â· We now wait for the dealer to spin, count to 4 seconds and if the ball is around 11 O’clock after 4 seconds we look at the number under the ball at that time. Let’s say it is 23.
Â· We now wait for the ball to drop in a pocket and look at the result.
Â· Let’s say the result was 33. So we count 5 pockets CW from 23. We now know that whatever the number under the ball at 11 O’ clock at 4 seconds is we have to add 5 pockets to it in a CW direction.
Â· So next CW spin we do the same and let’s say we have number 15 under the ball at 11 O’clock after 4 seconds. We now add 5 pockets to it which gives us a TARGET number of 25. So now we play around 25 for the bet. We can play 25 neighbors, which is 5 numbers or we can play any amount of numbers around the 25 whatever way of betting suits you. You could even play the whole half of the wheel playing 12 numbers each side of and including 25.
Â· It is very important that once you have determined a steady dealer spin speed and have marked it on the wheel (for instance at 11 O’clock after 4 seconds) that you do not place a bet if the ball is not at 11 O’clock after 4 seconds. Obviously the reason would be that the dealer spun slower of quicker than what you are looking for. Those spins you sit out. This is also a built in safety.

What to be weary of:
Â· It is very important that the dealer spins the wheel at a constant speed. You can count how long it takes for the wheel to do a revolution. This must stay constant. I believe that this is the only real danger to this method. So keep checking now and again if the wheel speed is constant.
Â· After you have found the dominant area on the wheel where the ball is at 4 seconds, and you have looked at the number under the ball and you now wait for the ball to drop so that you can work out the scatter, make very sure that it was not a abnormal scatter. With that I mean that the ball runs around on the rail or that the ball hits a fret and bounces away abnormally. We want consistency. So we look for a â€˜normal’ spins where the scatter is constant.
Â· Remember that we still won’t be winning every spin. I do believe though that I have created an edge over the casino though using this method.
Â· One more thing. You might notice that a dealer uses a slow spin to change sectors on the wheel. If you are good enough playing this method you can track this slower spin as well and calculate a dominant area on the wheel for this slower spin as well. So you have more attacks.

So good luck.

And when we combine Toxic’s explanation with this we get E2 where everything has meaning because of balanced time. But balancing is for a levelled wheel.
So when I said “What exactly one extra rotation means, I do to know exactly for now but definitely ball will travel for some time until it comes to 18 sec”
I really shouldn’t say it because I should know that in about 4 sec if the ball makes one extra revolution it actually means that we started about 3 rotations earlier. 3 rotations in front of 18 rotations may be 1-1.5 one sec. difference. (E2, 3 x multiplying factor)
Therefore if we play and count rotations for each extra we should add about how much rotor makes in one sec. and that would give us close results. For less rotations it may be a bit more since when ball is slowing down rotations are longer.
Toxic when you read ball at 11 o’lock it could be made 6 rotations or it could be 7 or perhaps 8. The difference about 3,6,9 rotations.

I wish we can have balance with VB2 as with E2 where rotor and ball can be observed in same time frame and where time can be a bit longer.
I believe if we observing spin from earlier stages rotor adjustments are more important than anything else. If spin is 4 sec longer we can easier sense it. If rotor is 2 pockets per sec faster, from start to the end of spins it is 40 pockets difference. If we compare 2 spins with 10 or 12 pockets /s we will spot the difference. If we play and if speed gradually changes we may not be able to notice it if we are not checking for it. If we do not use timer and starting from start of spin even mistakes in our reference time counting can inject significant errors.
Options are endless.
For example we can set time to 5 sec and do not start at start of the spin but to target when we have about 15 sec to go. Same as e2 but with observing just rotor of course we are more accurate. Did we really start at 12 or 13,…17…18 amount of counting rotations should tell us. Its matter of practise and observation.
Perhaps we could be able to use and free timer instead of one triggered by switch.

To Bebediktus…I was somewhat reluctant to actually try this method simply because I’m still trying to master VB2 (without timing devices) but today I did try it at the local B&M.

I can just say wow. It works like a charm mate. I played it on touchbet (rapid roulette) Believe it or not (I realize there was alot of luck involved as well) but I actually correctly predicted right on the number two out of 4 spins. The guy next to me almost fell out of his chair!

I started playing it as Forester explained counting 4 seconds (4 sec wheel). The ball was doing on average 12 revolutions. So what ever angle x 3 right? Well the rotor speed was very consistant and I actually started to ignore counting to 4 and simply started placing bets from the number under the dominant diamond as the dealer spun up. So as he released the ball I checked the number under the DD and voila that was my prediction number. I added numbers in the direction of the spin using the racetrack feature on the screen. It did real nicely.

I did at one stage have to check rotor speed again when a lady dealer came on because she spun it at 3 sec. And also did 12 revolutions so again the angle x 4 Right?

She was so consistant with the 3 sec speed though that it made very little difference at the end though.

Very nice system mate! Good on ya!

Thanx Forester and Bebediktus for sharing this.

Cheers
Toxic

The multiplicator of angle depends on that how long is in averidge your spin . If ball do 12 rev it is similar that spin is about 15 sec duration .So if you use 4 sec then multiplicator must be 15-4=11/4 =2.8 So almoust 3.

aaah ok I see where I have made a mistake.

I counted revs and should of rather timed the duration of the spin so that sec/sec right?

What is amazing though is how often when the dealer releases the ball look at the number under the DD and that is accurate enough! I like your method alot mate. The whole of the method I mean!

Cheers
Toxic

If rotor speed doesnt change then if you use x3 or x4 it doesnt matter much 8)

0 x 3 = 0
0 x 4 = 0

2 x 3 = 6
2 x 4 = 8

If within time frame rotor changges by 2 pockets prediction is wrong by 2 pockets

Just a tough - i play around with my metronome watch (Yamaha ME-120KB) and notice that if you press on the button it will vibrate once as you start - press the button and after that vibrate with 1 sec intervals (from moment you press button) - if 1.0 is the settings) so i assume it would work using a metronome watch as timer for this DS …

Question Forester - did you test this DS?

Cheers

I tested it quite a bit. Played it for real money on touchbet alot.

You do need a 1 pin wheel though.
But it does work.

Cheers
Toxic

[quote=“Toxic, post:10, topic:486”]I tested it quite a bit. Played it for real money on touchbet alot.

You do need a 1 pin wheel though.
But it does work.

Cheers
Toxic[/quote]

Cool Toxic - just curios how did you take accurate time - i like this combination and will study it and maybe test it - but i doubt i will find a 1 pin game as it does not exist in my local casino

But still i like the DS very much as it can be part of dummy bets or a combo as windows of opportunities open up for VB.

noob alert … whats a one pin wheel ?

Hi LS.

I used headcount to time wheel. You could adjust for slower or faster wheel speeds or just play it at the one “constant” speed. Say the dealer spins 4 sec wheel more than often for instance.

1 Mississippi … 2 mississipi etc.

Cheers
Toxic

@Riax
1 pin wheel = single DD (one diamond or defelctor is dominant)

Bebediktus do you still use this method?
I forgot about it and now i search forum for signatures and find this one.
Looks very good.

Cheers

Yes that is very good and very easy method.I always wonder why others not use it ? Now when we developed RC and programs are many very simple but even more acurate ways…

Now i not use it , because i have something better.

[quote=“bebediktus, post:15, topic:486”]Yes that is very good and very easy method.I always wonder why others not use it ? Now when we developed RC and programs are many very simple but even more acurate ways…

Now i not use it , because i have something better.[/quote]

I still searching for a good method that i can use when i collect numbers or other data and think this signature would be great.
But i not sure how to collect the data and use the paramters in real world as i don’t use timer or RC.

With the example above the spin make 18 sec.

Does this mean that i in real world we need to clocking ball from beginning of spin and find same spin making same amount of sec or else we can not use this method.

For example - just one idea as Toxic mention above:
Lets say i time the ball making 4 sec and note/mark what spot it has on the ball track.
Then say that some spins clumps at 12 o’clock and make the same amounts of laps from beginning to end.
Then i can assume time also will be close to same with little variance.

(These timings are just an example. The timings we take could be entirely different)
20 secs,

19
20.2
20.3
19.6
19.5
19.7
19.9
20.23

Next we need to focus on the highest timing on the list, which is ‘20.23secs’ , we then need to round it off ‘up’ to the next half of a second which is to ’20.50’.

Why round it off upwards?

The reason why we round it off the longest time 17.8 secs to the nearest 0.5 secs upwards in time to 18 secs its because you don’t want your prediction ending up behind the dominant pin when the ball hits it (Resulting in your prediction in the cold half of the wheel where there’s very little chance of it winning)
And i have 2 and 3 pin game in mind as does conditions are realistic.

Ok how to round is your matter but essence is that we use as sample some aweridge durattion, so here is not very important how we will round.

Lets say i time the ball making 4 sec and note/mark what spot it has on the ball track.
In this method we totally not pay attenttion to ball - our main task is to know wheel possition in spin end moment and find corelattion if spins durattion is slightly diferent than averidge. Here is the same as in other Vb methods - we need some stable ball dropp zone or some stable rest zone. All mathematick is done with angles - we fix starting point then notice wheel possition after some reference time - see angle with starting possition - multiplay it wit multiplicator and know where must be ball in the end of spin if spins duarattion is as averidge and if ball rest in place which we expect.

In this method comes to game all overlaps and all other what we learned about spins, say what is when spins durattion is slightly longer and slightly shorter - we must analyse what is in theese cases and find best multiplicator.

Really our multiplicator must be such that we can easy applay it - so it can be 2 -3-4. And acordingly multiplicator we corect reference time.

In this method we totally not pay attenttion to ball

I don’t understand this part as Forester made example with spin making 18 sec.
Then rotor make 6 sec and 3 rotation during time frame.
So data match and correlate and if rotor make difference with pockets/time we adjust.
But how can that be if we have other values/spins that is not 18 sec?

our main task is to know wheel possition in spin end moment and find corelattion if spins durattion is slightly diferent than averidge
.

But if we get different ball speeds with different amount of time - then we can not match data!
Or did i miss something.
Are you saying we can compensate time/distance or angle?
Can you give better example.

multiplay it wit multiplicator and know where must be ball in the end of spin if spins duarattion is as averidge

Again i get back to my first question.
This i don’t grasp, now you say ball has to be average/similiar for it to work.
But when we play we can get spins that make 15 16 17 18 19 laps.

Maybe i am stupid, but for me it looks like ball time is crusal for this method to work.

For us totally not interesting how moves ball and how moves rotor. We simply clock total durattions of several spins - that to know some averidge.

Then is good to learn to know durattion of spin visually . So we not do nothing other than do all VB players.

You can ask any VB player to look to ball movement several seconds and say totall durattion of spin - you will found that he will miss maybe 1 sec.

So say we found that in averidge spin durattion is 18 sec so after 6 sec left 12 sec so twice more. We observe that 6 sec rotor movement and simply add angle two times - idealy the same as in E2 only we all do not with ball , but with wheel, so always we use only angle.

But when we play we can get spins that make 15 16 17 18 19 laps.
That is totally not interesting for us for us is interesting time not ball rounds.
But if we get different ball speeds with different amount of time - then we can not match data!
Here is several soluttions - simply you can wait till moment when left time will be always Y+/-1 sec

You can play only selected spins and can do many other… but all that is abc of VB - you all that must know…