Betting techniques, VB and FF

Hi everyone, the post i am about to make covers many areas, and asks many questions, some of which i think are extremely important, but have not been fully covered in complete detail, so if some contributions could be made so that some of us newbies can learn from the maestros, that would be good.

Firstly, i would like to say that Foresters FF device is an extremely accurate tool. I have done extensive testing with the device on all types of wheels and all diamonds, and i would like to say that the device is well worth the money, if not more. However, buying this device and going straight to the casino will not win you anything, which leads me to my first topic (which i may have mentioned in previous posts, but would like people to clarify here).

the technique of betting:

I believe that this topic has not been covered enough on the forum, there are plenty of posts about prediction methods, wheel types, casino conditions, but nothing on betting techniques, which i think is probably the most crucial aspect of the game. I understand that some numbers are linked to other numbers on the board, however i would like to question how the pros on this forum are placing their bets.

I have noticed that many times no matter how fast i place bets, there is only enough time to place around 5-6 numbers. On top of that, where i am there are no call bets, so no tiers, etc etc… Do people here place bets in segments? or do you bet according to hotzones, (so to say) for instance, 19 and 21 are close together, and therefore it would be good to place a bet on the street, is this how people normally play? if anybody has some diagrams or pictures of these it would be greatly appreciated.

secondly, what interest me is when the prediction is obtained, do people here generally look at the “sector” and then place bets according to a memorized “hotzone” of numbers, or is the number obtained, (say 0), then from there on, we will bet in sequence: 0,32,15,19,4,21,2 etc… until NMB is called.

Thirdly, i would like to know how people here take advantage of a 2 pin wheel, both with VB and FF. it seems that a 1 pin game is non existant, but 2 pin games are plentiful.

last but not least, i would like to know how people that are serious AP’s gained their knowledge of placing bets, seeing as the layouts on the board are all over the place, the betting has to be done extremely quickly.

Ive come to realize that becomming a good AP is something not achievable overnight, and requires many hours of research and practice. It would mean so much to the people who are learning if the more experiecned players could contribute.

Thanks = )

Hello Gambler.

Ok i will share my experience with you. In my experience, the best is cover 5-6 numbers. Always in a sector consecutives. A good and definitive start is memorize the wheel in cw and acw direction. You must know the wheel very well. After you had memorize it ( 3 days is enought to memorize the wheel, you will see it), Memorize the wheel will give you a fast view while the ball is traveling. Is not a neccesary step but i recommend you.

What is necessary? Know the bets. As i say you know the wheel is a good help, but knowing the wheel maybe you wont be able to put chips.
Yes, you have to memorize it, but dont worry, i will explain how i did it.

Do clusters of 3 numbers consecutives.

And for each cluster you will bet the cluster and the neighbours of each group.
Example for 0-32-15. You will bet 0 32 15 and 26 and 19.
If predicion is 0 you bet 0 32 15 and 26 and 19
If prediction is 32 you bet 0 32 15 and 26 and 19
If prediction is 14 you bet 0 32 15 26 and 19

Ok? i hope you understand. DOing 3 clusters you only have to memorize 12 bets.

Of course if you can can do clusters of 2. Wich will be 18 bets
And if you want you can memorize the 36 bets of each number.
The point is that you will not improve a lot if you memorize 36 bets or 18 because the hit of the rotor will not be always the same number predicted, can be +1 -1 -2 +2…Understand?
So memorize groups of 3 numbers.

Also in this case, how you have memorizrd the wheel, you can add a chip in the number 3 because is close to 26…

Buuuuuut before memorize you have to order from less to plus.
For example for the bet 0 32 15 26 and 19, you cant memorize in this order, you have to memorize 0-15-19-26-32
Because if you dont do it, you will waste a lot of time travelling around the wheel. Imagine you put 0 then to the other side to bet 32, then again to other side…
If you put bets in order you will be extremelly quickly. I can put 5-6 numbers in around 1-1,5 secs

Study and study until you know it. Alternatively you can buy fun chips and fun board to practice in home, or you can make it manually (i did).

For the second point you say, about 2 pins wheels, im preparing a document to exploit it, in few days it will be finish. Alternatively i was speaking with Forester and Viper yesterday, to do one experiment that can be definitive, but is only a idea.
In usual 2 pins have inside more that hit to rotor, scatter is important in this play, since we have the luck that wheels have 2 peaks in scatter, 0 and +15.
There is also a good writes of basieux about it and make bets in vis a vis, if you have this conditions.
My recomendation is wait few days to me to finish my document, and you will understand.


I forget mention another way to place the bets that is very easy, fast and discrete. I tryed it with very good results.
3 numbers in 1-18 layout
You memorize the clusters and put only numbers from 1-18.
Example 0 32 15 26 and 19.
You put 0 15 19 only. I will be very easy and very fast since you clock next to the wheel, and you dont have to travel in laout more far than number 19.
Easy and discrete.
You will have a lot of hits between your numbers (f u c k!!!) but, in the long term you will be winning.
In this case you have to pay attention to amount of spins. You have to play more spins to get the edge.


thanks manuelon for the fast reply,
recently ive also discovered that palcing bets by o,32,19,4,32, in order, it is just too slow because you have to travel back and forth across the board. currently i am attempting to create a series of betting hotzones, were multiple numbers in the same sector can be covered by splits or streets. By placing straight ups, it seems too difficult to win as the ball will always seem to make extra rotations, scatter against what your predicted scatter is, etc etc…
I will definitely read your article on 2 pin games, will you post it on the forum?

I am sorry Manuleon BUT I do not agree with ur way…

When we have a prediction with VB or FF it means that this sector of the wheel (pred num + 2 neibours) is the advantage position to place our bets because this is the hottest place for the ball to finally land.

So The gap thing is a big mistake because thios “gap” is an advantage pocket bet…
So as u said a lot of times the ball can land in these gaps…Can u imagine that??? :o

Correct hot sector prediction BUT ball land on the gap !!!
When will this pattern (DD HIT+average scatter + correct pred) will happen again??? :o

So the full sector betting in my opinion is the only way to go

gambler i can show you how to learn the wheel - very fast and acc
cw and ccw
pin point every number

If you want let me know


Hi lucky strike, your expertise and help in the field would be greatly appreciated.
Like i stated before, my main issue now is the bet placing, as i cannot get the chips onto the table, so if there is any way, I am willing to learn. Could you please pm me? or post on forum? thanks.

Yes Viper, i know is a shit when the ball enter in a gap, i know…But betting 3 chips with advantage you dont have to be worry, because you still having advantage but only in 3 pockets. You will need more spins.
The bet has to be confortable to the user, of course is better have the optimum bet (5-7 numbers) but if you are more confortable with 3 you can place 3 and not worry about noting. In long term you win.

Sometimes the table is full of players and colors, and you are next to the wheel so you have to take prediction and enter into the table withing all the players, sometimes is impossible. Playing 3 chips within 1-18 numbers is very easy because you can do very easy.

You have less advantage but you do more traking and that is all

The player has to choose what he wants.

recently ive been exploring other methods, such as covering ONLY the 6 lines with a certain amount of chips covering roughly 19 numbers in the predicted zone, however i am thinking that the return is not high enough, due to the fact that thsi technique would require the player to win almost 5 times for every 1 loss. Even though we have an advantage, i believe that this is not a good method. Another method ive been exploring is betting via streets and splits, however likewise the return rate is lower, requiring a higher hit rate. for now i surpose i will stick to memorizing straight up bets, however this method is a dead giveaway to all security if they look closely at your bets…

Can you bet on neighbours? In all the casinos I have around there is a possibility to bet on neighbours. So I used to memorize neighbours sequence (they are located 5 pockets one from another) like this way: 0 21 6 30 24 14 29 3 19 17 36… and so on.

If I want to cover seven numbers with a number “5” in the middle - I bet on “5” neighbours and “33”, “8” straight. If I want to cover ten numbers around let’s say 22 - I bet “31” and “7” neighbours. If I want to cover 15 numbers with a “0” in the middle - I bet “0”, “28”, “21” neighbours.

I can make it even easier, just throw three 5$ value chips to dealer and say “28, 0, 21 neighbours” - he places them himself sometimes even after NMB was called.
So, using neighbours you can cover most of your bets just with 3 chips.

unfortunately where i am located we cannot bet on neighbours, itsjust the plain roulette board, so we have to bet in sequence, either splits or straight up. problem with straight up is that if you bet so many times and win, its blatantly obvious “LOOK AT ME, IM AN ADVANTAGE PLAYER”. Im thinking from now to just bet streets and splits, using terminals.

Firstly try to achieve such a level of play when you “bet so many times and win”, it is not as easy as may seem when you just begin to play… After that if you see you’re winning constantly and it is drawing someone’s attention - you will start thinking about more complicated ways.
As for me, I play neighbours or straights covering certain sectors of the wheel. I don’t care what do dealers or pit bosses think because my win rate is not very huge. Of course you alway must be careful but it should not become paranoical.

We also haven’t got the racetrack but we can make call bets. For instance call out 20 and neighbors x 10

Which obviously would mean 20 and the neighbors by $10 per number. After the spin has started there are three call bets allowed, so if someone else calls three numbers with neighbors I’m out. If however, 1 or two guys take up 2 call bets I still have one call bet to take advantage of. What is nice is that call bets you play with either cash or cash chips. (Can play color too) The reason why I say that it is nice, is because you can stand a bit back watching the wheel, calculate, walk in and call, 0 neighbors by 100!!! and dip dip dip in the 32! :smiley:

toxic where i am located it is very rare to hear a player tell the croupier a certain number “and neighbours”. also we cant make call bets with cash, the most i can do is ask for a specific number for a chip to be placed on, which might buy me some time, however after a while the dealer might get annoyed if every spin i am asking a late bet.

@ shotman, i agree with you, it is very difficult to win, i wish i was as talented as forester, who made around 17 grand once in one trip didnt he. I guess its just practice, practice and more practice until i can achieve a leve of perfection

Hi Gambler,

All our wheels here you can do call bets. Check if your tables have a little rack with neighbor pills (little discs with each number in bold and smaller numbers around (neigbors). If you do you can. Usually 3 call bets before the spin and 3 after for the whole table. Guess it depends on the rules of the casinos though. Where I play, they have auto chip counters but he specific table the counter was broken and he dealer under pressure. After I hit on neighbors I asked for color chips on which I got a snotty reply:“If you do call bets you don’t need color” Obviously wasn’t in the mood to sort and count out my color…I insisted though so she unwillingly with a huge attitude and with sighs and swinging arms eventyally paid me with color. :smiley:

The next spin I lost and then to piss her off a bit more cashed in three blacks and asked for color although I had more than enough in front of me. I then proceeded to play call bets with stacks of color chips…I was not popular! :smiley:

hi toxic, we dont have any of that here, i checked thoroughly the other day, so for now its just using the roulette board by itself. I was wondering how so many people on this forum were doing well as soon as they get their ff devices, i guess they didnt have to learn the entire board off by heart and could just play neighbours, haha.

"I wish i was as talented as forester"
Truth is i can place bets in very short time, but i wouldn't say I am a great player. I always say winning at roulette is very complex task requiring many components to work together. I assume a talented player would win more.

Check this
I tried to explain why playing more numbers is important.

But that is not the main reason of potential failure.
Someone gets his FF, wooo its amazing I won 3 times.
I asked him about ball jumps he has no clue didn’t finish his homework.
I asked him about offset he has no idea. Of course next is “ouch something changed”.

Maybe I should stop answering questions before then someone do basics first, “submits his ball jumps graph to forum”. Observing ball jumps on an unknown wheel when playing can be very deceiving.

Of course I do not write this to any particular person but in general.

The only place to make “Call Bets” on a real wheel in Australia i have seen in Canberra.

At terminals as rapid-roulette we can do it and it’s very handy, especially older ones (removed :() , but on some terminals they call NMB as soon as ball starts spinning.

I actually started learning the wheel layout as a first step when I decided to pick up AP.

So before I even really knew what VB was, I already knew the wheel.

As far as touchbet goes. Yes we also have the change screen to race track. Makes betting very convenient BUT sometimes it’s too convenient and I might just overbet. With touchbet discipline is even more important. You cannot exactly take the blacks and put them in your top pocket. I find my bets get bigger and bigger … sometimes it really is beneficial and profits pile up in minutes. Othertimes it’s like someone hit you from behind with a 5 pound hammer…:“WTF happened!”

We also do not get alot of time to place bets after the ball is spun. That’s what makes VB2 the only method possible on these touchbet wheels. Traditional vb — out. Even RC’s ----out. Just not enough time to time rotor and ball. So VB2 is the only possibility on wheels like this.



So before I even really knew what VB was, I already knew the wheel.

Do you know the number rings layout - gambler …