2 pin game overlap


#1
Every VB assumes the ball ill hit the dominant diamond that is how the advantage is created. You may have 2 diamonds most of the time hitting. For example 12 and 3. You may target dd 12 however if the ball makes 3/4 less rotation and hits the DD3 it still drops on your predicted number. since 3/4 rotation slow rotor will be in that position.

Is that the same principal when you play a 3 pin game - how would that situation look like?

If some one have the cd manual about overlaps that he mention in the text below - then i would like to get a copy or trade - PM me.

The Jafco Roulette Overlap

In my view, The Jafco Roulette Overlap is the most significant part of my visual system, an opinion confirmed by the numbers of others sellers trying to imitate it.
It is the key reason that makes visual roulette humanly possible, when playing 2 or 3 pin game.
There are one or two hidden factors within this concept, which is why all the imitations i have seen are not, in my view, well done.
These factors are less important to players providing they fully understand how to apply it correctly.

Being such a key factor, details of the overlap are extensively covered on the Jafco CD player Manual but it’s always a good idea to emphasize some of benifits.

The overlap has several key advantages, one being that we have a far wider area to visually aim at with the ball.
Imagine an anticlock wheel where the ball is going to land on either the pin at 12 o’clock or the pin at 9 o’clock.
I don’t know if you think you could say visually which one the ball will hit but i know i can’t atleast not 4 revolutions before the ball drops.

For many players the game is already up and that’s because in a normal situation the numbers underneath these two pins would be 9 pockets apart if the wheel was not moving and about double that in reality, where the wheel is moving.
These two sections will be on completely opposite to where they are betting and also the reason why so many good players gave up the game when the 1 pin wheels were mostly thrown out.

Imagine you were aiming at the 12 o’clock pin and were atleast good enough to correctly select the right numbers for a ball landing at this location.
If the ball just didn’t quite make it and landed at 9 o’clock you would not win unless it bounced nearly half the wheel.

With the above method we are visually aiming at the point between the two pins and this is almost impossible to seperate one from the other.
This is also extremely difficult to do with a computer, where we are also using human skill to measure the ball speed, through our clicking.
This is why i have also built in my overlap methods to my software prediction and why i believe it to be the best out there.

Let’s now look at all this from a different angle and try to separate these two pins from the exact opposite side of the wheel.

Imagine if you had in your mind that you were looking for a ball speed that would result in the ball laning at around 4.30 o’clock.
Now, we know that because of the 2 pin wheel bias, the ball will not actually land at 4.30 o’clock and that’s a good thing because if the ball was a fraction faster, then it would travel on to the 9 o’clock pin and if it were a fraction slower it would land earlier on the 12 o’clock pin.
This is already a far wider area than trying to seperate them in the way described at the beginning of this section.
We are now aiming at three quarters of a revolution and not one eighth of a revolution.

Ok, so if the ball lands at 12 o’clock pin, let’s say the section approaching this pin was the 0 zone and we had it covered.
If the ball lands there then great, we could easily win just by being in the best place.
Now let’s say the ball was just a bit faster than we estimated and travelled onto the 9 o’clock pin.
While the ball is covering that extra distance, the slow wheel will also move on towards that 9 o’clock pin and again our bet numbers will meet on landing !! This means that it doesn’t matter which pin the ball hits as long as it hits at the right moment and furthermore, we will be in the best position for either.

This is what i refer to as the third dimension of roulette as it is failry geometric and not entirely obvious at first.
As we can see, the advantages of this are profound.

The overlap is so named because one section of numbers suitable for a landing on one pin is also the very same section of numbers that are suitable for a landing on the other pin, and in effect we are converting a two pin game to act more like a 1 pin game, the game that professionals had earlier been winning at for years.

Now w have a great wide area to aim at and even more significantly, we don’t need to know which pin the ball will hit when we make our bets.
If you look at my videos on Youtube or your dvd, I never know which pin the ball will hit when i make my bets and beautifully, i don’t need to!

With visual play we must always compensate for human error and the overlap is no different as this too we will sometimes get wrong and it is important to know that here to there is a good error to make and a bad error to make.
It is also covered in the ball judgment section.
The bad mistake to make is to go too early and find the ball going past your aim pin, when we would expect to lose every time.
The proffesional’s error, or good error to make is when we go a little late and the ball lands a whole revolution to soon.
Providing we are playing the slower wheel we can certainly still win and only require a little more counce that normal, something we get often.

So if we aim at that 9 o’clock pin, then in our minds we will be looking for a ball that may just be fast enough to go 3.75 revolution but if not, it will go 3 revolution and if we make an error it will go 2.75 revolution which is not ideal but can easily still win.

I hope this clarifies more aspects of the Jafco overlap position as it has been the biggest key to my succcess for many years.


#2

All is nice, but are one problem - that overlap will work, ball usually must have possibility to do way X and say way X+0.75 in rounds from the same speed. Next moment is that if theese possibilities exsist scater must not do damage for that.
If to put all together theese situattions are super rare and to play on that we simply cant.

Plus we not know when it will happend, so we cant use that. In roulette are several situattions which works similar to overlaps , but we cant them controll and cant to recognise…
Maybe 10-15 years ago was other wheels, maybe they where more tilted maybe they had some balltrack bias, but all that was many years before.

Now usually ball hits to all diamonds and if ball missed our expected 12 DD it will hit to 3DD but not to 9DD after 0.75 round. All what looks for us like +0.75 round - in most cases are bad clocking, so bad detecting left distance.

From other side to know where ball hits is still not win, for win we must know where ball will stopp, and that is abit other thing.
If we will count distance from prediction till ball rest we will have disperssion which is more that one round so some places are under overlap so no mater which distance ball will go - result will be the same, but if we will count how many times that will occure so will look to some distances as X+1 we will find that total density of them is less, that some in disperssion middle.

And if we will play theese overlaping zones - we simply will play bad zone.
You all can do simply test - put wheel to more or less level possition and do timings of ball till the final ball stopping possition, then look what way ball will do from always the same speed say from 1000 ms - find minimal and maximal distance and fin distance which is most possitive and you will see that most possitive possition is not that overlaping possition.

And from here becomes clear that only ball speed is not enough, ball cant have in the same speed such diferent energies that it will do such diferent distances and them was not possible to detect…


#3
In roulette are several situattions which works similar to overlaps , but we cant them controll and cant to recognise....

What ways works similar to overlaps as Forester and Jafco describe them.
Show me and write about it so i can understand you, show me one or several examples.

How about a 2 pin game with ball cw and rotor acw.
Deflectors 9 and 12 o’clock is hitting.
Then if the ball hit 9 o’clock - does it donate ball jumps into same high probability area as 12 o’clock deflctor hits zone.

Is that what you mean by similar to overlaps?

Kelly wrote:
We always measure the count from each diamond but mostly to see if there are some sort of correlation between‭ ‬2‭ ‬diamonds located close to each other.‭ ‬Often you will see that the ball has more momentum‭ (‬longer bounce‭) ‬when hitting the first diamond and will look ‭ ‬more tired‭ (‬shorter bounce‭) ‬when it hits the second diamond. ‭ ‬So that when you compare te‭ ‬2‭ ‬spin types,‭ ‬you might actually be able to only be betting in‭ ‬1‭ ‬zone,‭ ‬no matter which diamond is hit.‭ ‬What Basieux in his books calls the‭ “‬rauten effekt‭” ‬or translated‭ "‬diamond effect‭"‬.

Other solution and a little different will be betting the diamond with the most frequent bounce,‭ ‬which is in a way understandable if you have a diamond where you are able to make an almost sure hit if the ball actually strikes this diamond. ‭
‬But in the end,‭ ‬you must make a calculation wether the most frequent hit diamond is able to overpower a less frequnt hit diamond but with a more narrow/frequent bounce.‭


#4
Then if the ball hit 9 o’clock - does it donate ball jumps into same high probability area as 12 o’clock deflctor hits zone.

Is that what you mean by similar to overlaps?


Yes that is about what you writed. And all is more simple when we not look to diamonds at all but look to some ball energy - so if ball hits say more early than it can - it jumps longer, if it hits more late it jumps less.

Because of such efect we can not look very carefully where is hit, but look where ball rest.

But that all is only one side. So we have ball speed, no matter how we detect it with RC or in some other way and have expected left distance.

Other side is that we fixed speed and expect for some distance, but ball move slightly other, than as we expect. Not always we can that to notice, especially when we measure ball in some near distance - say after 2 rounds.
But are some situattions when we see something reliatively clear. Say we fix start point of spin and after some time we try to catch some stable ball speed. Here we can see after which time from the begining of spin ball reached that time. In ball distance that is very noticiable. Not always but usually that time or distance in which ball reached some special speed can be very good and quite exact indicator what will be in future.


#5
Say we fix start point of spin and after some time we try to catch some stable ball speed. Here we can see after which time from the begining of spin ball reached that time. In ball distance that is very noticiable. Not always but usually that time or distance in which ball reached some special speed can be very good and quite exact indicator what will be in future.

You can not know which deflector will hit! so that can’t be a solution.
You say that you can isolate some parameters with one spin behavior and if they repeat your expectation would be that same deflector would hit again.

Did i missunderstand this or is that correct!


#6
You can not know which deflector will hit! so that can't be a solution.
I not know maybe that is possible to determine which deflector will have hit simply i not give to that much attention. I predict time which is left and how much distance come to that time.
You say that you can isolate some parameters with one spin behavior and if they repeat your expectation would be that same deflector would hit again.
If i will predict DD i can do that with quite big efectivness. Really main diference with others is that if they keep that if ball =X, then left distance = Y. For me the same function is like this - if ball = X and ****1=A and ****2=B, then left distance = Y. So i use more criteriums to detect left distance.

#7

Two pins Laurance scot was explaining in one of his books ~20 years ago. I explained it on one of FF videos before than Jafco existed. How he claimed, it is Jafco 2 pin game I have no idea. I know when he published it my point of argument was that he explained it wrong. As you explained dd 12 and ball pass it to hit dd9 he claimed you can only aim at dd 9 and have overlap if the ball hits dd12 as (-3/4) of rotation. People who bought Jafco system believed only his VB predicts 2 pins. While it is never statistically proven, the VB2 should work better than traditional VB with overlaps. Reason for that is increased prediction based on the ball speed inclining prediction more for a bit faster rotors even for longer ball jumps in the case of higher hit on diamonds.

We all talk x amount of rotations plus or minus ¾ of rotation but reality is that as many times ± ¼ of rotation happens. Each VB has a method which trying to identify particular ball rotation, Jacob’s does not except if guessing is not a method. Therefore, you guess if the ball has 4 or 3.25 ball rotations to the end. If the result is wrong, it is your fault nut not the systems fault, which did not give you any tool to guess it right. Reality is that even RC cannot define the borders for ball speeds traveling 4 and 3.25. If looking a bit earlier as 6 and 5.25 overlap cannot be anything more than something that just happens on the wheel.


#8

I think all exalt of overlaps are from situattion that VB player often bad predict left distance for ball. Say he want predict as 5.0, but in reality can be 5.75-4.25 and here is very good for system creator to say that from 7 possibles outcomes/ hits - 3 is good for player, without eplaining that 2 of them will be very rare…

When player use some thexnick to determine ball speed - he predict left distance more acurate and overlaps with 0.75 diference become even more rare.
This way left only compensattion, when diferent way till hit, produce diferent scater what some also names as overlaps. So this moment is much more important than overlaps in 0.75 round.

But most important thing in game in mine point of view is to know in which zone ball have slightly biger chances to stop. Say even if we predict half round zone or even 2/3 round quite acurate - we usually not have enough time to cover it all and at all to cover too big zone is abit too risky, because we simply bet to much looking to payment.
So if we know quite good 2/3 of wheel where ball will land, for us is very important to know which 1/3 have more chances . And that we cant know simply from statistick, because if we clock absolutelly acurate - from the same ball speed ball can do quite wide distance till end.

But possibility that ball can do X+1/3 and X+2/3 rounds, not means that for such diference are not reasons, that more means that we simply not measure that, what can give us clue to soluttion…


#9
Two pins Laurance scot was explaining in one of his books ~20 years ago.

And how is that solution, is it same as one of does mention above?
When i talk to Laurance he mention he had a solution for fast rotor where a 2 pin can correlate into hitting same zone.
Then is not same as above options where one is with less 0.75 with slower rotor to overlap - if i understand it correct.

While it is never statistically proven, the VB2 should work better than traditional VB with overlaps.

What kind of traditional VB are you refering to and why do you assume VB2 is better?
VB2 has limits like playing only rotor speed around 4.0 and what about duration of spin predicting early (acc) …
Also only working with timer and not a practical solution like a metronom.
If you use the “ball crossover” you can predict as early as VB2 and with same acc.
What paremeters make VB2 better for overlaps and what kind of overlaps are you spekaing about (when ball make 0.75 rotation less?) …
Or did i missundertand that part of the overlap?

When player use some thexnick to determine ball speed - he predict left distance more acurate and overlaps with 0.75 diference become even more rare.

I can agree whit that - our method are to acc to be missing 0.75 rotation less.

This way left only compensattion, when diferent way till hit, produce diferent scater what some also names as overlaps. So this moment is much more important than overlaps in 0.75 round.

I don’t understand this part - can you write more clearly what you mean.


#10

Quote

This way left only compensattion, when diferent way till hit, produce diferent scater what some also names as overlaps. So this  moment is much more important than overlaps in 0.75 round.

I don’t understand this part - can you write more clearly what you mean.
That is what you reposted from Basiux book

VB2 has limits like playing only rotor speed around 4.0 and what about duration of spin predicting early (acc) ...
Vb2 teorericaly have no limits - so we can play with it any wheel speed if you think that only 4 sec ( i wonder why you think not 5sec or 15 sec ) that simply show that you not understand essence of method.
Also only working with timer and not a practical solution like a metronom.

What is diference between timer and methronome - i see only one - timer is much better, you prefere methronom - so which is worse , more i not know what to say…

What paremeters make VB2 better for overlaps and what kind of overlaps are you spekaing about (when ball make 0.75 rotation less?) ... Or did i missundertand that part of the overlap?
Here main moment is that overlaps in 0,75 will be very rare- yoiu can imagine that they will not be at all. Only if predictor make huge mistakes he can have also overlaps in 0,75.

Lucky it looks like that you try to play with 20 years old methods.
I not say that it is not good, i even say that it is very brave.
But from financial part - that is very big minus. You not use computer 20 years old ? Here is something similar.


#11

I don’t understand what you mean by 20 years old methods - its all physics and there is good and bad methods or should i say better.
Yes i prefer using metronom and not timer with roulette computer, is nothing wrong about that.

Cheers


#12

Simply timer we can start when we want , with methronom that is not so easy and methronom we cant stop when we want. Start and finish is very important moments so we must be able to do that when we want. Or when we need.
Physick all is good, but simply technologies go in front and oposite side them use so we must use them also till we can.

Happy Christmas !


#13

[quote=“lucky_strike, post:9, topic:1144”]

Two pins Laurance scot was explaining in one of his books ~20 years ago.

And how is that solution, is it same as one of does mention above?
When i talk to Laurance he mention he had a solution for fast rotor where a 2 pin can correlate into hitting same zone.
Then is not same as above options where one is with less 0.75 with slower rotor to overlap - if i understand it correct.[/quote]

Obviously you dint understand it correct, perhaps what you talked may not be related to what he explained in his book.
You have the book and you didn’t get it, it means that he writes it on not the best understandable way for new users. Now when you know more if you read it again you will notice it instantly.

"If the rotor speed is such that it will compensate by traveling three quarters of the wheel in that same 1.5 seconds, the relative position of the wheel will be the same for the second fall-off point.
The ball will still strike at the same section of the wheel if the wheel is traveling at the optimum speed for the fall-off pattern. "

Laurance Scott, Professional Roulette Prediction Volume 2 Advanced methods, Estimating rotor speed page 9.

You wrote “The Jafco Roulette Overlap”

Using someones work and calling it Jafcos is very bad. Overlaps were explained by LS much earlier, same as traditional VB that Jafco calls his system.

Jafco dint bring new solution how to identify particular ball rotation or to predict in a new way, in all of that can have credit only in creating rotor adjustment cards for retarded since it is so unprofessional and impractical for real play but he didn’t offer alternative.

Claiming that only with his system you can play 2 or 3 pin game is manipulative, same as his explanation that you have to use first pin for it to work. It could pass only because most people have no understanding and were manipulated with his videos. Bebediktus is very correct, same as the ball has chance to hit + - 3/4 it can hit + - 1/4.

Master roulette at least offers a method how to identify particular ball rotation, on top of that he also explains overlaps however I did not see him claiming overlaps are his innovation.


#14

if we didnt get the exact remaining time there is no need to think abıut overlap ı guess.because even if you think all possibilities (5 , 5.25, 5.50, 5.75 or 4.75, 4.50, 4.25) if remaining time changes as little as 0.5 sec all prediction shifts by some amount of pockets.(5 pockets for 10 p/s rotor speed)


#15

Forester can you give me the link to the FF video where you explain the 2 pin game - thanks.

Cheers


#16

The ball may hit the same diamond but it may not be in same time even it travels same amount of rotations. For that reason there is always difference of few pockets.

[quote=“lucky_strike, post:15, topic:1144”]Forester can you give me the link to the FF video where you explain the 2 pin game - thanks.

Cheers[/quote]

It is mentioned in few videos but that is not the point. Before then the YouTube existed there was a Google video. My video was added there but later on Google closed all videos and asked to transfer it to youtube which I never did. However the video still existed when Jafco come with his advertisement, I remember I showed it to Viper since he couldn’t believe it.


#17
if we didnt get the exact remaining time there is no need to think abıut overlap ı guess.
Why we must not get exact remaining time ? We must have it exact enough if we want to think about winings.

There are no miracles - if we want to win all must be exact.


#18

[quote=“lucky_strike, post:15, topic:1144”]Forester can you give me the link to the FF video where you explain the 2 pin game - thanks.

Cheers[/quote]

If you ask about explanations how to play when ball hits in two diferent places - then for you is too early to think about winings…


#19

I still want to see a video …
Been thinking to backtrack Mastersroulette video with avidemux.
Hope i get the time doing just that.

Cheers


#20

[quote=“lucky_strike, post:19, topic:1144”]I still want to see a video …
Been thinking to backtrack Mastersroulette video with avidemux.
Hope i get the time doing just that.

Cheers[/quote]You have a wheel at home, don’t you? Just document 1000 trials and see by yourself. It will answer all your qwestions.