Winning: Steps to Identifying a playable Wheel

So as some of you may know, after months of reading and studying roulette, I am finally starting to win. To be completely honest, When i first found this site i thought i found the silver bullet, “i’m going to be rich!!” i thought. 1 year later, still learning how to play properly, and only just started to win =P. Hopefully from here on it will just be an uphill journey. Anyway, moving on,

I would like to share a brief acocunt of some important aspects of roulette to do with REAL CASINO ENVIRONMENTS, as well as preperation. It seems that about 80% of roulette is preperation and finding the correct conditions, and even then the conditions can change almost instantaneously, with the AP, no matter how skilled he is at the mercy of the Croupier and wheel. Firstly, i will talk about the steps i take, (in order) to identifying a wheel in a new environment with wheels i have not yet encountered.

  1. First i note the scatter. If the scatter is no good, then it is pointless to play. Where I am, sometimes they use balls that seem to be made of rubber, bouncing around like no tomorrow. However, if the wheel is tilted, then I might come back to that wheel after a period of time, if a different type of ball is in use.

  2. Note the drop point. Anti clockwise and Clockwise spins i note seperately. I first take 30 spins to see if there is any pattern in AC or C spins. If there is after 30 spins, I will take another 30-40 spins. If not, the table is not playable for me. After i have collected my spins, I see if there is any consistency with the spins. For example, if the scatter or Dominant diamond begins to change in my last 10 or so spins, then I am not willing to put my money on the table. However, if there is a constant consistency with at least 2 diamonds taking around 60% of the hits, with one of them dominating, I will play.

  3. Prior to palying, i watch another 5-10 spins just to confirm. Sometimes during the last few rotations of the spin, you can identify the particular ball speed and make a semi-accurate assumption of whether or not the ball will strike your dominant diamond. Sometimes the dealer is nice and lets me place bets right up to the second last spin, so if i feel the ball will cross my dominant diamond, i will start placing street bets in another sector of the wheel. This brings me to my next topic.


I think its something that is overlooked too many times. Everybody keeps talking about “hwo to predict, how to predict”, but nobody speaks about betting strategies. For me, i play a small number sector, around 4-9 numbers, depending on the wheel, however the speed and judgement of the bets is important. For example,one time i encountered a wheel where the scatter was either 10-14, or 25-30. In terms of betting, it was difficult to take advantage of it, as i did not have enough time to cover 2 sectors at once, that and I am still a newbie and not experienced enough. So i would alternate sometimes, however whenever i bet,t he wheel always seemed to change back and forth from scatter, very frustrating. I still managed to make a nice profit, but with such a good wheel i believe i sholdve won more, and thus was very disappointed with myself.

So to sum it up, Ive seperated roulette prediction into these categories, that must be mastered/met if the AP is to succeed.

  1. CONDITIONS- wheel speed, DD, Croupier, NMB, Ball type, Scatter. One of the most important.

  2. PREDICTING: The ability to count/clock accurately (VB or RC)

  3. FAMILIARTIY WITH THE WHEEL- The ability to adjust bets to the wheel and place bets VERY QUICKLY. Every wheel is infinitely different in terms of its scatter patterns, and thus bet placing is an essential skill.

And more advanced (still learning =D )

  1. CAMO- How to hide. last time i was playing all the players were staring at me when i was winning and placing last minute bets, and even the croupier took interest. Not a comofortable situation to be in.

  2. Extreme familiarity with the wheel, where it becomes second nature to just adapt, knowing where every single number is.

Of course roulette includes Bias, as well as VB, however i understand that bias is a sensitive topic, with many good players not willing to share their secrets for security reasons. Becuase of this, I only understand VB to an extent.

A final note, sometimes i use the usic in the background that the casino plays in order to do my rotor timing. For example last time i used a drum beat from the song being played to do my timing. that worked nicely ;D

AND of course, if i get pissed off at a wheel and it is always jumping 1-2 pockets out of my sector, i will think “tomorrow i will bring in the big guns (FF device) and kill this wheeL”, haha.

Thanks for reading :smiley:

Thanks.Very useful and interesting.

Nice post gambler, I know some of it seems like common sense but its good
to hear it just for reasurance. Its better to learn from others than mistakes
made in this case. As, Viper says if you get tagged by security it could be over early.

I am happy that you are learning the things with the correct way.
Your eyes are opening day by day and you are in the right track of the AP.
It s nice that you have the patience to record the spins … believe it or not there are vb players ( bad ones) that are playing very early , without having collected the right "map " of the wheel (conditions and advantage position). this makes the game random as they were playing with luck or maths…or some times even worst !

As you see ALL the things and advices that I had given you , they are correct and I am really happy that you have expirienced them too and that I helped you a little.

Now here comes a new lesson for you :

You said that If you are missing by 1-2 pockets , the next day you are taking with you an FF.
This is not a rule , because even with a RC you can miss by some pockets.(its matter of scetter and not of bad predictions)
The ONLY 2 good thing that a RC can provide you better than VB are those:

  1. If you see a wheel that has nice tilt and nice scatter , BUT the ball is spining so smooth in the ball track that you can t spot the correct revolution to make your predictions, then I surely recoment you to take the RC with you, because the RC can spot the speeds better than the eyes…
    So maybe this wheel that you couldn t take advantage of with VB, you will be able to take a nice advantage with the RC.
  2. If the NMB is earlier than the “knee point”(prediction moment) and you can t spot an exact revolution before the knee point moment, then take the RC with you and set it to predict earlier then the NMB.for the same reasone as the above one.

Now you have learned( I hope) the basics of VB…
Its time to move on and learn some of the advance stuff in VB.
Those are:
The VB2 that can help you a lot on some wheels that you will need to place bets earlier and in some wheels that you can t spot the correct rev due to a very smooth decleration the the ball.

The 2 pin game play . You MUST learn how to take the best possible advantage of the 2 pin game when a wheel is producing equal hits on 2 DDs.(only when the rotor is in a speed range that can favour this fenomeno)

If you will learn those 2 above things, then your eyes will open more regarding VB and you will be finding more wheels to play , because with the basics that you know now , you are excluding some wheels that could be even more profitable if in your knowledje those 2 things were included.

I am proud of you . its a rare thing for a roulette player to learn VB and apply it.
Just make ur knowledje and skills better and you will succed.

Gambler nice post, thanks
I think everyone should read it.
Often people have problem understanding how roulette advantage is created, or got wrong impressions from scam sites promising easy money.

Five key factors:

[li]understanding [/li]
[li]practicing [/li]
[li] practicing[/li]
[li]practising [/li][/ol]

Objectively, it`s very interesting, but as for me - too complicated to use it on practice. Card games strategies seem easier to learn. Anyway, thanks for sharing your research!

No worries, im still learning as well = ), everybody on this forum is very helfpul. You stated card game strategies are easier to learn, perhaps, but not by a long shot. Card counting, shuffle tracking, etc etc would be equally difficult id say, that and everybody knows about card counting, its the one thing casinos will acknowledge wheress many roullette croupiers ive spoken to dont even know the existence of VB. Oh yeh, did i mentiont that more and more casinos are starting to bring in continuous shuffling machines?

I’m playing VB2 exclusively and mostly on touchbet. We have two touchbet wheels here of which both have DD’s BUT to me only the one is favourable simply because the one wheel’s scatter seems to be too random.

I know that in most posts experts say we should play say 5-9 numbers per spin. I do not do this though. Because of touchbet terminal and the racetrack, it is easier to place bets quickly and cover more numbers. Now I know there will be a lot of critics but I play up to 20 numbers all on the racetrack, in other words neighbors. The thing is this. If I cover 15-20 numbers, never will all the numbers have one chip on each. I identify each dealers wheel speeds (usually +/- 3 different wheel speeds) I concentrate on those and look at where the ball hits the rotor using VB2 cadence. I do NOT change my cadence. If I use 1.5 sec cadence I stick to it but I adjust to one of the say three wheel speeds I identified.

Let’s say I have a 5 second wheel on the next spin and identified that the ball will drop 90 degrees short of my prediction then I start covering from 90 dgrees short. I cover about half the wheel from there BUT I cover more on the areas say closer to my prediction (if the wheel has nice 9 pocket scatter (which it does). So certain numbers might have 20-30 chips on them in my prime area where as others will have between 1 and 10 chips on others.

Last 5 sessions (my sessions is 1 session a day) I only lost once whereas on the other 4 sessions I more than doubled my bankroll everytime. Once even took my startup bar to 6 x before cashing out. Worst I have done is 3 losses in a row (3 spins) whereas I have had 12 wins in a row (12 consequtive spins). So that is how I play and it works for me. I play at two different casinos. Both have touchbet and all of those wheels are tilted to some degree.

One thing that has become a problem is that the bigger of the two casinos where the dealers wear earpieces and are in contact with the control room, that there is no doubt that they have identified me as a threat. When I start playing I hit consistantly and profit come pretty rapidly. Not very long and suddenly the dealer changes first of al wheel speed more than often (just suddenly) and when I adjust for that and still win, they change ball speed so that there is hardly 4-5 revs. The problem here is that the electronic eye picks up ball speed and on a certain ball speed calls NMB. So if they spin the ball that slowly I do not have the slightest chance to place a bet because as I get my prediction NMB are called or even before. I have never seen anyone on these terminals play after the ball has been spun except for me. So I have realized that especially the change in ball speed is a direct countermeasure for me. I guess I should feel honoured.

One could say that it is just coincidence, but it’s not. Not when the ball speed never ever again changes to quicker than the mention 4-5 revs. I usually get up and leave after about 5-6 spins and go for a coffee. When I come back the ball speed is as normal again. So to me it is obvious that I’m targeted. ::slight_smile:


Hi Toxic, nice post. I have considered a similar thing for the automatic wheels in the
casino near me. Just wondering what sort of time do you get before NMB are called?

The casinos are very savvy, Using touchbet exclusively means its easier to track
players then when at the table and spot those who win more often. They simply
become more visable to staff, like a regular in the pub. If you are winning maybe
its worth travelling to a few more haunts?

Hi Develish,

yes. They can definately keep an eye on you. There are more cameras above your head than paparatzi cameras at a celebrity cat walk party. Also, everything is automatically recorded because you are betting electronically. I’m in the unfortunate position that there are only 2 nearby casinos with touchbet around. One is an hour away he other 30-40mins. The nearest thereafter is like 1600km away… and I don’t even know if those wheels are tilted. I just know from a friend that they also have touchbet.

When I start playing on the day a dealer might spin and get like between 12-16 revs on average which gives me enough time to predict and get my bets in before NMB. (With a second to spare) When they spin and the ball does 4-5 revs. NMB is just about immediate. So when the ball slows down to say 4-5 revs out, NMB are called. So any slow or slowish spin makes it hard.

But it’s ok. I just have to keep sessions shorter. Could even come back and play after an hour or two. These touchbet machine tilts alot and inspectors have to come out and reset the cpu next to the dealer. Maybe when shifts change and a new inspector pops up I should too ;D


Well i think that was a great post gambler and i don’t know what to add as we do things a littel different.
One option do is to use some kind of DS or dummy bets that hovering around zero point and would allow you to place early bets or in the middle among does late bets witch will make things look more smooth regarding what you are doing - its like hide and seek opportunities and look like an average roulette system player - if you combine both you can hide your betting strategy not being so obvious and get intention from others.
Second and again its just my opinion is how to learn not starring into the wheel to much - the first thing that strike me was when LS mention how he just glance at the wheel twice getting acc rotor and once to make hes read - if you can do that just glance at the wheel for three times and combine that with i mention above you will for sure be one hard nut case to be noticed as AP.
I should also mention that if you reach a level like Toxic winning 12 to 15 times in a row - you should start to thinking if you can lose some back to the casino witch will make thing even more perfect when it boils down to hide and seek and look like and common roulette system player.
Then there is involves many things towards this and it depends on witch kind of visual read some one master and apply as there exist far more then my way and VB2 among others - and all of them have there own benefits.
Its so obvious for all of us that standing next to the wheel is the best place to be - but should mention i know does who can stand at the end of the table and still manage to make a complete working read and calibrate the data in a split second and place there bets down.
I agree with you that scatter patterns is sometimes a pain in the ace - but if you search you will find there is other options then just bi-modal effect as using three angel or split low and high sector and one more is why not start to explore using high/low scatter bets where you can covering one high probability area with five pockets with just placing three chips and so on.


One thing i notice many times when i read about posts like you made is how many forget how to book or use a note pad with crusial information when a observation is made - we all have our own way doing things - but i will show you one great phrase Kelly mention with the topic scatter in development section.

If you combine this kind of data with a simulation software you can become semi pro in no time at all - is just about practicing.

When i book for later pinpointing of advantage sector (using a software) my booking looks like this:


  • = fast
    26 = wheel speed
    18 = exit number
    5 = strike diamond
    32 = number below diamond
    16 = outcome number

To memorize all this i go as the spin develops and the data starts to appear. I don`t write anything down until the spin is done:

    • 26
    • 26 - 18
    • 26 - 18 - 5

So assume you will move on to a two or three pin game and collect data this way - then you can observe wheels and when you find one with pontentials you just go out from the casino to a coffe shop and put in the data and get all the peaks and individual scatter data and so on - that is a very good way to analyze data and pin point out the very best oppertunites.
Or why not spend one day with one wheel and get back next day and confirm your previos conditon is still valid and then play.

Some-times it can be difficult to know what is what and pin point all that informaion you can find in a public forum.
I tell you how i start as a beginner.
First i got contact with LS and one other legend and have good contact with bouth - then it grow and i start to get into the AP community.
I also did pick does names witch i know that they know exactly what they talk about about and back-track all there post regarding all existing topics - some i even save as my own pdf to build my own libary of information i find crusal and intressting.
Then later it become sharing things and following my own path i decide witch direction to go and study and learn from others.
Its all about make an effort and collect on does things with your own development to move forward.


I must clear up something though.

LS mentioned getting to my level and hitting 12-15 times in a row.

I just want to point out that this would be in a sector 18-20 pockets large. I might hvae say 18 pockets covered with 40-44 chips (example) some numbers will have 3 chips on others two and others 1 with one or two overlaps maybe equating to 4 chips per number. Wost cas scenario I hit on a 1 chip number I loose say 8 chips. But anything from 2 and up I’m in profit. Yesterday I played starting with 150 chips. Ended on 700 chips before cashing out. Alot of my ‘hits’ were in the middel part of chip value giving me between +/- 24 and 70 chips profit on a hit. There is no denying though that a total loss would be say 44 chips or a 1 chip per number loss would be +/- 10 chips or so. I think if you had a 1000 chip br you could play 5-9 numbers more successfully. But with low br startups I believe in more numbers covered. Just make sense to me. Having said all that you still have to be accurate doesn’t matter what size sector you play in other words you have to have an edge that is the bottom line.

Hi lucky strike and toxic, nice to see you again.

Lucky strike i have been doing precisely what you described, both in terms of learning and in terms of how I approach wheel watching. Personally i have amassed a large number of word documents that experienced players such as you, kelly, forester, snowman, sec man etc etc…, people on this forum who know what they are talking about on my computer. I analyze all that is written, however like you said, I am still learning and part of it is figuring out things for yourself as people will not be willing to share everything they know about VB.

Moving on to the actual act of placing bets, I dont know if my local casino is bad, but recently I have needed to make adjustments. I always write down the dominant diamond, strike point, scatter, final outcome, wheel speed etc, then analyze the data before i return to play, however as I do not bring in a large BR, playing smaller sectors has not been working well for me, infact recently many times i only just managed to break even, not even making any profit. For example, say i play 5 number sectors. This means that 1 in 7 times i must win to make a profit. In a 2-3 pin game, perhaps 4 or 5 times it might hit my DD, and out of those maybe 2 might produce a reasonable scatter. Out of those 2 times, both times it might miss my sector by 1 pocket, other times i may not have covered the sector correctly because of NMB.
I have looked into the 3 angle bets and vis a vis split bets, however they are always in fixed areas, so you are betting in a pre-existing memorized sector. Also, i do not have the luxury of neighbour bets, so all bets i place must be done without the racetrack. As toxic said, i must agree that with a smaller BR, larger sectors is better, even if some areas have a negative advantage. I mean if you think about it, betting 18 numbers, you need to win 1 in 3 times to make a profit. In a single roulette game, you have a around 48% chance of winning with 18 numbers, giving hte casino its roughly 2% edge. However, providing the scatter isnt too crazy and is fairly consistent, give or take perhaps +5 or -5, betting half a wheel like toxic does might prove beneficial as we are covering a higher probability AREA, not single numbers. Of course smaller sectors based purely around our predicted numbers is favourable, but with VB how can be sure that our rotor measurements are correct? I am not skilled enough to make adjustments like some of the experts on this forum, so i think it is best for me to jsut stick with large sectors and smaller bank roll.

Now the only problem for me is… How the hell do i get 18 bets down WITHOUT neighbour bets, before the dealer calls NMB?!?

Hi Gambler,

If your casino allows call bets, it’s a good way to bet and just add on the layout. So if you want to bet from 2 to 8 you could call 2,27,8 neighbors by denomination and just add numbers inbetween if needed.

If you do not have that luxury, learn the wheel by heart. Remember you could also only bet on numbers 0-18 or vica versa in your section. In other words if you decide to bet only low numbers you could do so BUT then do it the whole session. So then you would typically cover for the area 2-8. Yes you will loose some when hitting in your area but it’ll come back to you.


[quote=“Toxic, post:15, topic:698”]Hi Gambler,

If your casino allows call bets, it’s a good way to bet and just add on the layout. So if you want to bet from 2 to 8 you could call 2,27,8 neighbors by denomination and just add numbers inbetween if needed.

If you do not have that luxury, learn the wheel by heart. Remember you could also only bet on numbers 0-18 or vica versa in your section. In other words if you decide to bet only low numbers you could do so BUT then do it the whole session. So then you would typically cover for the area 2-8. Yes you will loose some when hitting in your area but it’ll come back to you.


Well i assume gambler know the wheel layour in both cw and ccw direction - it was the first i learn and its basic knowledge.
If not there is some good post about it here at myrulet abou it.


Like LS said, I can memorize the wheel and can nearly always get in a 4-7 number sector bet before NMB is called, (unless the croupier is being difficult). Toxic that is a method that definitely works mathematically, however in the end we are still faced with the BR issue. If i begin with a lower bankroll i will be covering more numbers, preferebly half the wheel. If we just bet in the 1-18 sector then it would be better off just playing the 4-7 number sector. The reason I want to be able to play 18 number sectors is because with VB2 the prediction must be before the knee point in order to have linearity. Once we have linearity, we know that we are almost definitely going to achieve somewhat accurate results, Providing everything goes to plan. However, predicting so far to the end means that even if rotor is 1 pocket difference, we could be wrong by nearly half a wheel. Now i always do my rotor timing before i apply VB2, but the difference of half a pocket in speed is VERY difficult to notice, especially on double zero wheels european wheels where the zeros are together. So whats the point of playing 6 number sectors if we could be wrong by 12 number sectors? we could be betting in EXTREME negative advantage. So 18 number sectors is optimum with a lower BR. Oh, did i mention that the reason i MUST convert to VB2 is because people have been caught with RC’s in my area?
If anybody has any charts that outline links between numbers on the wheel i would be forever grateful!

Hi Gambler,
Interesting you mention people getting caught with RC, dont
think its the place for this section of the forum to go in detail but do you
know any more details, how they were using the system, whether it was
a mobile phone ect?


If anybody has any charts that outline links between numbers on the wheel i would be forever grateful!

I am not sure what you mean - do you want to know witch numbers on the tabel that is connected with does on the wheel.
LS and Baiseux have very nice charts regarding that - just PM me your email and i send you a copy of Basieux chart.