VB2 rotor adjustment or changing reference time


hello everyone

when applying vb2,if we see slight difference of rotor speed (1 p/s change) between spins what should we do?add/minus rotor adjustment (1×12=12 pockets) or change the ref time?ı think if we apply same ref time even with slightly different rotor speeds, will cause shift of prediction number.so ıts more wise to apply different ref time?



I personally find more easy to upply bigger time interval to refference rotor speed if posible, if not, don’t bother with refferencing rotor at all. Just upply vb2 time twice and multiply change ( distance) by fixed multiplier. Fixed multiplier is time till end of spin/ vb2 time. Only aventurate vith fixed multiplier if you can judge ball speed and rotor speed by feel. For start, try to play only one rotor speed. Later you will understand, probably, if its possible for you play different ones.


If counting adding 1 or 2 more counts for faster rotor is ok if done properly it is a but better then just shifting by x amount of pockets.


Here do you have a great method by Forester (rotor timing adjustments)


as ı understood in vb2;during the left side of knee zone ACC is constant and if we apply certain ref time and if it is true we should read same number when applying ref time.am i right?
BUT when we enter the knee zone and after that deceleration suddenly rises and nearly at the end deceleration drops again because of ball exiting ball track.so we have two phases one is which ACC is constant, second is which ACC deviates.
so if we apply certain ref time and if its true we read same number because of the consistency of ACC!and if we read the same number we DONT make rotor adjustment also.am ı right?
my question is if distance between of reading number and drop number correlates (ı mean everytime same amount of pockets) everytime?ı know forester said if ball gonna hit
DD yes it correlates.but ı dont understand even if ball gonna hit DD; the deviation of ACC on the right side of knee zone and remaining time differs in every spin how can we sure that the distance of reading number and drop number be same?
ı hope ı clarified my confusion.
thanx for the responses




You apply lets say 2 sec at 11th rotations to the end (Point A)you the ball makes 2.5 rotations
you apply lets say 3 sec later (point B) the ball makes 2 rotations
so there is 18 pockets difference.
If the rotor is ~6p/s it means from point A to point B it will move 18 pockets, so the difference in distance that the ball makes matches the distance which rotor makes.

With traditional VB you would read reference number at DD12, it doesn’t mean that the ball will drop on that number, so you may move observation point form DD12 to match the difference in distance.
Same with VB2.

Traditional VB is ok if you can identify particular ball rotation as for example using sudden deceleration change if there is a strong knee point. Often that is not the case and it is hard to spot the difference in between ball rotations, then VB2 helps.

Every VB assumes the ball ill hit the dominant diamond that is how the advantage is created.
You may have 2 diamonds most of the time hitting. For example 12 and 3. You may target dd 12 however if the ball makes 3/4 less rotation and hits the DD3 it still drops on your predicted number. since 3/4 rotation slow rotor will be in that position.

When I developed E2 system, it was designed for leveled wheels. But on some wheels it never worked. At that time believe it or not i didn’t know about tilt affect on the wheels. E2 works by observing angles and multiplying it with 3, some wheels i was using time without multiplication which means i played VB2 much earlier then I developed it, without knowing that i was playing it. Instead of 1/5 sec or perhaps 2 sec i was using 4 sec reference time as it was required for E2. it was still working because the wheels were semi tilted and I was able to start the time most often at same moment during the spin.


thanks for the reply forester.ı hope ı dont bother you with my questions ı know how it is hard to explain someone who has little knowledge then you:) but ı see you are patient and willing to teach and ı respect you.and ı felt very close to you ı dont know why but ıf ı won enough money in future ı thought ı would ınvıte you here or ı can come to see u :)))

ı understood your example and of course there is gonna be a distance with the reading number and drop number.its clear.but what is unclear for me is why the DISTANCE of this two numbers(reading number and drop number) should be same in every spin?to be clear let me give an example:

1.spin:we applied 2 sec.rotor speed 4 sec.ball cw wheel acw.we red number “3” twice.same number.ref time is ok.we wait.ball hitted our DD at number “15”. 4 pockets distance from reading number.(in ball direction)
2.spin:rotor speed 4 sec.we applied again 2 sec.ball cw wheel acw.we red number “27” twice.same number.so ref time is ok again.we wait.ball hitted our DD at number “30”.4 pockets distance from reading number again!!!(in ball direction)
3.spin:ref time and rotor speed exactly same with above two spins!we red number “1” twice.again same number.so ref time is ok again!we wait.ball hitted our same DD again!what do we expect?4 pockets distance in ball direction.but it hitted at lets say number “32”!!!15 pocket distance from reading number.

in this 3 spins assume we are SURE we calculated and measured rotor and ref time perfectly.

did you experience something like this?if yes why would it happen?if no and if you say if it is impossible what makes it impossible?



It can happen,
Most likely one rotation earlier the ball was at dd over the number 1 (maybe 24) but the ball was a bit stronger. VB2 increases prediction with faster ball. That faster ball because of strong tilt does not stop on dd, 3, 6, 9 but it makes full additional rotation.

If you look at it as times of ball.
One spin 1100 ms ball may travel 6 rotations.
Next spin you may have 1070ms , this ball is a bit faster it will predicted a bit more but not so much as full ball rotation. So there are always braking points which are impossible to predict.

You may have even 1000 ms once make 6 once 7 ball rotations.
The ball is not 100% balanced, it is has marks, the ball track has dust, the ball doesn’t always cross same micro obstacles, sometimes it travels a bit easier way so it arrives to the last rotation a bit faster.

Leveled wheel may have 4 vertical diamonds where each theoretically takes 25% of hits.
Tilted wheel may have one dominant diamond, which groups wider range of ball speeds.
1000 may hit dd 12, 1050 dd 9, 1100 dd6, 1150 dd3

On tilted wheel you may have ball speeds
1001 to 1200 hitting dd12 after 7 rotations
Than 1201 to 1400 hitting dd 12 but after 6 rotations

It is logical to expect that ball speed ranges 1180-1220 are unstable and often will make different amount of rotations. It is impossible that the 1200 always makes 7 rotations and only 1 ms slower ball makes 6.
What goes in favour of VB and a bit more in favour of VB2 is that instead of 24 it predicted 1 a bit more. Often you have common ball jumps 10-15 pockets, but the ball which made additional rotation will arrive to dd very slow and hit it at bottom part. Such ball often doesn’t jump so even it dropped wrong it may stay in area you played.


ım clear now.big thanks for the replies @forester @sergiy @lucky_strike


Guys, the main moment which you must to understand is that not only ball speed determine left distance. To explain all will take too much time and space, i not want that. Simply things are that all is much more dificult - not is that if X= A then Y= B.
Reality is more similar to this , if X=A and z= C then Y = B.
Why i post such and not explain more ? I simply from one side not have time for that from other side i not know how to explain for this moment, later i maybe will know how to explain…
But esence is that is liniarity not from only one variable and at all it is not linearity…


@ Bebedictus. Yes, you are right. There are 3 main factors in determining time till end of spin. They are velocity of ball, atmosphere pressure, decceleration profile of current spin. I myself can throw ball to make 3 different timings till the end from same speed per revolution. Atm pressure affect how many revolutions ball has left till end , if it will make fraction of revolution extra, or even entire revolution extra… these affect place ball hitts and exit velocity plus kinetics energy of ball, these affect scatter… ets. Its all interdependent. Idea is to look where multiple possibilities lead to same outcome.


Athmospere leave in calm, we can very hardly use it. But we can reliatively easy see ball speed and how it decelerate.


[quote=“bebediktus, post:12, topic:1142”]Athmospere leave in calm, we can very hardly use it. But we can reliatively easy see ball speed and how it decelerate.[/quote]Yap decceleration profile rools, when l started to filter back/ forvard aditional axes of ball rotation ( decceleration profiling ) my resoults became better. That would be nice if ff would allow to save odd spins, where it normally registers error " inconsistent lap timings" ( posterior lap smaller then precedent). For now lm forced to use stop watch, and l would prefere ff for timings collection.
Couldn’t you by any chance make one version of ff with menue 1 ( save spins as klicked, without any errors) and timer as it is currently?


I like the VB2. However, I still find that you must still watch for the short ball verses the long ball.


Short or long spin that is not main thing, simply way in which we have prediction must be in relationship with point in which ball land.
That can be like as distance which we use for showing prediction must be in relationship with left distance, or some other relationship…
Only when are functional relationship between what we use for prediction and what is in reality ( result, distance ) - only then method works good.


But when we’re playing with more than one point, as is often the case, the player must recognize the long and short ball…Even with VB2.

But when we're playing with more than one point, as is often the case, the player must recognize the long and short ball...Even with VB2.

Ok short or long spin is other story, they are diferent, so movement are diferent and we must use other function. In VB2 that function is time and starting possition, in simply variant when we use only one time reference time short and long spin have efect to starting possition, but to do that player must be very skilled , because here he can do big faul.

When we play VB2 with two times is similar but easier to choose that starting possition.

When we play VB2 with three time frames, usually we have clear picture, but say for me that is too hard play, i usually something foreget, so instead this i prefere RC.

Every VB assumes the ball ill hit the dominant diamond that is how the advantage is created. You may have 2 diamonds most of the time hitting. For example 12 and 3. You may target dd 12 however if the ball makes 3/4 less rotation and hits the DD3 it still drops on your predicted number. since 3/4 rotation slow rotor will be in that position.

What kind of rotor speeds manifest that kind of overlap?



with 6 pocket/ sec rotor speed it can be since the last ball revolution might be something like 2 sec/rot.