# Understanding roulette ball jumps

#21

[quote=“bebediktus”]

Can be this and can be other so can be initial part the same , but rest part diferent and oposite initial part diferent - rest part - the same.

[/quote]

If it can then it is irrelevant what is the first part.

Ether way it is a different subject.

[glow=blue,2,300]Understanding roulette ball jumps![/glow]

#22

[quote=“forester”]
[quote=“bebediktus”]

Can be this and can be other so can be initial part the same , but rest part diferent and oposite initial part diferent - rest part - the same.

[/quote]

If it can then it is irrelevant what is the first part.

Ether way it is a different subject.

[glow=blue,2,300]Understanding roulette ball jumps![/glow]

[/quote]And so? Let’s separate ball jumps from what ball does???

#23

[quote=“Sith”]

any practical example? I mostly see opposite.
[/quote]

I didn’t see you showing it or explaining.

And so? Let’s separate ball jumps from what ball does???

And again.

#24

[quote=“forester”]
[quote=“Sith”]

any practical example? I mostly see opposite.
[/quote]

I didn’t see you showing it or explaining.

And so? Let’s separate ball jumps from what ball does???

And again.
[/quote]l have not seen any explanation of your point either… if in doubt, take some spins timings and look yourself.
As for separating ball jumps from what ball does, it’s simple. You already many times admit it yourself. As an example , prediction to outcome versus prediction to the diamond ( or strike if you wish). It’s a topic about UNDERSTANDING BALL JUMPS. To understand them need collect ball jumps together with ball timings… if not, there is no understanding posible and nothing really to understand.

#25

[quote=“Sith”]

I didn’t see you showing it or explaining.

[/quote]

I also did not reply and negate someones sentence. If I did i would definitely explain it instead of just saying it is not like that.

To understand them need collect ball jumps together with ball timings… if not, there is no understanding posible and nothing really to understand.

If you can show how for example 800ms/r ball jumps differently than 810ms/r nobody is stopping you, just elaborate and how the time measurement was taken.

#26

[quote=“forester”]If it can then it is irrelevant what is the first part.

[/quote]
No not irrelevant. Every situattion have its reason. Ball jumps depends how was contact with rotor

2 mm diferent hit can create jump forward or backward, 0.5 mm diference can create or long will be jump , or short.
We never know details what will be. But from experience and from research we something can know.

Say on some wheels if we look to jump as to some distance between first totch point and rest - can be any distance if we look to MOD functtion, but on some wheels we can fast notice two or three main distances which are much more often than others and such thing we can exploat.

At all fact that can be ball speed one or other and that we cant find relationship between ball speed and jumps - not mean that this relationships not exsist.

We cant find it, but sometimes we can avoid effect of it.

And at all we must decide what is important for us, for me is important posibility to win and when i collect data and see picture

for me is irelewant which is jumps , because i from picture of distribution see that i will win not depending which is scatering…

#27

It is not only 2mm but many other parameters as well.

The ball hits different part of diamond, the ball hits same part of diamond but different speed, the ball drops on rotor with different angle and different speed, the pocket separator is in different position, rotor speed is different, the ball is different. Even if have accuracy of 1 mm in ball position at the moment of drop for each wheel each ball combination you would need hundreds of spins to make a decision. That all overpowers theories and claims detecting back spinning and influence of it on the balls jump.

Did you ever see any serious people showed anything on such subject? For example this is 100 spin the ball comes to rotor with that parameters and this is the result, this is another 100 with different parameters, and this is possibility how to identify when the ball will arrive with such parameter. I did not, instead I see wankers making such claims but never could elaborate even a first step to justify such claims.

#28

[quote=“forester”]
[quote=“Sith”]

I didn’t see you showing it or explaining.

[/quote]

I also did not reply and negate someones sentence. If I did i would definitely explain it instead of just saying it is not like that.

To understand them need collect ball jumps together with ball timings… if not, there is no understanding posible and nothing really to understand.

If you can show how for example 800ms/r ball jumps differently than 810ms/r nobody is stopping you, just elaborate and how the time measurement was taken.

[/quote]
How to collect ball timings? It’s not that difficult, just time the ball from prediction moment to fall of moment. Instead of focusing on ball rotation timings ( wich is irrelevant ), use total time ball takes.
In this case, you may get very nice chart as Bebidictus show on picture in previous post. And stop worring about 10ms differences, it’s not something you are able to see at the game anyway, mistakes in timings operations will be far greater.
In general, while speaking about scatter, it should be accounted from different places into the spin ( prediction, diamond, strike…ets), conditions that is present should be considered as well.

#29

[quote=“forester”]It is not only 2mm but many other parameters as well.[/quote]
Of course not only but that is main picture how super small diference can have absolutely diferent result

[quote=“forester”]Even if have accuracy of 1 mm in ball position at the moment of drop for each wheel each ball combination you would need hundreds of spins to make a decision.[/quote]
We not need spins to make decission. No matter which decission you will make next spin can be other.
We must find way of play where for us not need to predict scatering.
Main moment is that you want based on measured ball speed detect final result.

Here in mine opinnion is bigest mistake. Proving of that is that mine picture when just small 2 mm falling diference can have totally diferent final result.
By speed we can detect to what will be more similar result to 250 pockets till end or to 300 pockets - but that not give benefit. We cant say that this speed is more likely 260 but this is more like 270… Because of that not worth try to do what we cant…

#30

[quote=“forester”]
It is not only 2mm but many other parameters as well.

The ball hits different part of diamond, the ball hits same part of diamond but different speed, the ball drops on rotor with different angle and different speed, the pocket separator is in different position, rotor speed is different, the ball is different. Even if have accuracy of 1 mm in ball position at the moment of drop for each wheel each ball combination you would need hundreds of spins to make a decision. That all overpowers theories and claims detecting back spinning and influence of it on the balls jump.

Did you ever see any serious people showed anything on such subject? For example this is 100 spin the ball comes to rotor with that parameters and this is the result, this is another 100 with different parameters, and this is possibility how to identify when the ball will arrive with such parameter. I did not, instead I see wankers making such claims but never could elaborate even a first step to justify such claims.

[/quote]
It would be nice if " serious people" would be giving away results of their hard work. However this way of thinking is not serious itself. Till the moment you yourself will take full profile of variables to analyse situation , you are one of these " wankers" with unsubstantiated claims.
On other hand , no one stops you or any other to perform such a study, lm the first one to sign up to help with it. Who else? Anyone willing to work?

#31

[quote=“Sith”]

How to collect ball timings? It’s not that difficult, just time the ball from prediction moment to fall of moment. Instead of focusing on ball rotation timings ( wich is irrelevant ), use total time ball takes.

[/quote]

And again, nothing except telling the others what to do to prove something you believe. Your solution is not worth comments but feel free to demonstrate it.

Until then don’t be rude and lire, I never claimed such things it relates to people who do talk rubbish but never show anything.

#32

[quote=“bebediktus”]
Of course not only but that is main picture how super small diference can have absolutely diferent result
[/quote]
Not main part but very small part.

“No matter which decission you will make next spin can be other.”

Even if it is not and if as I mentioned we are with 1ms accurate we still can’t do much. (I am not talking here about single DD old wheels with 400ms difference in between roptations)
[quote=“bebediktus”]

We must find way of play where for us not need to predict scatering.
Main moment is that you want based on measured ball speed detect final result.
[/quote]

Ball rotations times are all we have. They define ball speed but and remaining time until the end of spin. That’s why it is wrong to say well I will not look ball speed but just remaining time it is more accurate.
Radial predictions are good because combine jumps the problem is they need many spins and in many spins many things may happen.

#33

[quote=“forester”]Not main part but very small part.[/quote]

You can predict ideally perfect but still ball will hit 2 mm diferent and instead jump in front - will be jump backward so instead +10 you will have -8 …if for you that is only small part what i can to say…[quote=“forester”]Ball rotations times are all we have. They define ball speed but and remaining time until the end of spin. That’s why it is wrong to say well I will not look ball speed but just remaining time it is more accurate.[/quote]
Ok all peoples have only two legs - but some run faster…
That times are only what we have - not say nothing about results. The same data in diferent hands can show diferent results.

But fact that by increasing ball speed we will have longer distance for small diferences is not right.

Especially when we for getting less clocking mistakes use longer distances.

That works only for big diferences…

[quote=“forester”]Radial predictions are good because combine jumps the problem is they need many spins and in many spins many things may happen.[/quote]
Which are predicttion radial or linear , maybe not so important important is to predict what we really can predict.
If you collect data - then that data must be collected from some more - less stable point.
Predicttion is not good choise for that…

#34

[quote=“forester”]
[quote=“Sith”]

How to collect ball timings? It’s not that difficult, just time the ball from prediction moment to fall of moment. Instead of focusing on ball rotation timings ( wich is irrelevant ), use total time ball takes.

[/quote]

And again, nothing except telling the others what to do to prove something you believe. Your solution is not worth comments but feel free to demonstrate it.

Until then don’t be rude and lire, I never claimed such things it relates to people who do talk rubbish but never show anything.

[/quote]
I unswered your direct qwestions " how to take ball timings?". Do you belive it was answered incorrect? Argument it please. What part of my answer is off limits to your understanding? It’s simple vb as any reasonable person play it.
As for being rude or " lire" ( whatever it may mean), what exactly do you tolk here about? Your " qwote" has to do nothing with your " comment". Could you be more specific, please?

#35

Vb can not well even predict correct diamond, and you talking about predicting different jumps on different diamonds. Just go your way and be happy make more videos to teach someone else not myrulet.

#36

[quote=“forester”]
Vb can not well even predict correct diamond, and you talking about predicting different jumps on different diamonds. Just go your way and be happy make more videos to teach someone else not myrulet.
[/quote] in this case lm forced to use your own words. Instead of proving anything you just tell people " what to do"… This is " rude" . As for “predicting” diamond , be my gest, make a demo video where you do it( together with resulting scatter, please).
If you mind yourself able, it shouldn’t be a problem for you, right?

#37

I don’t know what’s wrong with some people.
Start talking how he will know if the ball will jump differently if use remaining time, then that the time is defined with VB, when nothing makes sense he attacking me to do something for him to prove claims which I never made. Go in peace and please don’t come back again, enjoy your greatest discovers, I hope you get your patent granted. 8)

#38

Forester,

I’m interested in learning more about your ball jump (scatter plot) data on the cammegh wheels.

I’m not up to speed on what the entire thread is discussing.

1. How many spins were plotted in your original graph?

2. What model of Cammegh is graphed?

Thanks.

#39

101 spin, Cammegh Connoisseur

#40

Cammegh “Connoisseur”, not “Classic”?