Traditional Pocket Separators VS Starburst Pocket Separators


#1

Below is a link to the tcsjohnhuxley website showing a diagram of the traditional pocket separator compared to the starburst pocket separator. What makes the starburst wheels so random is because the pockets are made with a triangular design with lowered height separators to increase randomness, especially at lower wheel speeds.

It would be a good idea to always pay attention the type of pockets on the wheel you are about to play. If the pockets are triangular with lower frets, means you are about to play on a starburst wheel with maximum randomness and scatter. If the pockets are square looking with average sized frets than you are most likely about to play on a traditional type wheel with minimum randomness and scatter.

http://www.tcsjohnhuxley.com/products/LIVEGAMING/RouletteWheels/TraditionalWheels/en/pdfs/RouleteWheelsCIS0506v21300dpipdf

CHEERS… :wink:


#2

Dr Spock & Co

I absolutely refuse to play on a Starburst & one or two other wheels just as I always cash in and walk away when they begin calling no more bets early. If they want to try and get my money they must be prepared to give me some chance. But the way they think is “let him go he’s too difficult & there are always plenty of mug gamblers to fleece”.

Mike.


#3

I agree, certain pit bosses would like to see every gambler loose and would get angry if even 1 player walks away a winner. Most pit bosses specialize in GREED. The more money they take in the more they want. That’s why it’s always nice to see someone to give them a taste of their own DAMN medicine.

The only exception to that rule is if a table recently took a high roller to the cleaners, than the pit bosses will just stand in the background with big smiles on there faces laughing and joking about the sucker they just took to the cleaners - - - enjoying the moment , and letting what they consider to be the small time players get thier nickels and dimes for the next couple of hours or so.

The sad part of the story is that the poor bastard - - - the high roller that just lost all his money - – generally don’t even realize that the pit bosses were laughing at him the entire time in the background.

What comes around- - - goes around. I have all these such pit bosses and tables on my hit list of tables I will hit in the future - - just so that I can see the expression on their faces after I walk away a winner. The strategy is to nickel and dime them to death - - instead of trying to take them to the cleaners all in 1 shot.


#4

I can`t say i agree. The Starbursts has a peak as well as any other wheel. With quite a few balls its no different than any other wheel, except the distance and the width of the peak. If you guys paid more attention to the initial mapping and analyse of the wheel, you would know that sometimes Starbursts can be a wet dream for a VB ¨r.

What makes the difference is the ball material. With some balls the wheels become an almost random thing at certain speeds, but mind you, that goes for i guess all wheels. I think the Starbursts where invented as a normal business development for TCS to renew the scene, create sales etc. The triangular pockets is being sold to the casinos as “more random”…Really… read the dealers boards, the casino personel already believe any wheel is random, how can a wheel be randomer than random. So to speak. The pocket shapes is already in square, round (spoon), triangular and i believe i heard OCTAGONAL shapes. Its a design thing to create sales for TCS and others. All WE have to do, is map the wheel thoroughly.


#5

Kelly

I can believe what you say about the Starburst with particular balls but in my case I have only ever found them with a very hard bouncing ball which seems to have a really wide offset pattern. besides that I’m a traditionalist and I hate anything new and I know - you will say sentiment shouldn’t come into it but it does with me and I do still have a choice. Trust things are still improving on the home front?

Keep winning

Mike.


#6

Kelly,

I believe that trying to map out a starburst wheel is more of a project that will produce random results unless it’s a biased wheel - - that’s just my opinon. I feel that way because not only can the ball skip over the low or no fret pocket walls, it can also exit the rear of the pocket rather easily. As if the regular type frets weren’t enough, why put our money on the line with starburst wheels where the ball effortlessly skips across the depressions like driving over speed bumps - - when all I have to do is find a wheel that suites my style for maximum winnings.

I probably could win on a starburst wheel if I was willing to map it out, but my objective is to win money the fastest way possible while drawing the least amount of suspicion - - - and the time it would take for me to try and map out and figure out a starburst wheel wouldn’t be the most logical approach for me to take - - even if my mapping conclusions where correct because of the time contraints involved.

I am aware of the basic ball types and sizes and the effect that it produces on the wheel- - - however, I really didn’t want to get into that at this point in time - - but YOU DID BRING IT UP - - SO LET’S PROCEED:

BALL SIZES

  1. 18MM ball size - slightly less than 3/4 of an inch in diameter (smallest ball used in casino that produces the most bounce)

  2. 21mm ball size- a little smaller than 7/8 of an inch in diameter (largest ball used in casino that produces less bounce)

  3. Mid sized ball- 13/16 inches in diameter (in the middle - – the latest sized balls most casinos use at certain tables)

BALL TYPES

  1. Teflon material- is heavier material and will deaden and drop quicker. ( advantage player’s dream ball)

  2. Composition material- (like those used on billiards) - - -lighter than Teflon, but a bit on the heavy side (which is good for roulette players since it will drop quicker on the rotor.)

  3. Ivory material- right in the middle, however prohibited in most casinos.

  4. Acetal material - a common substance for roulette balls, is a lighter to mid ranged material with a decent amount of ball action. This is a happy medium for the Casinos. Not as good for the roulette players.

  5. Nylon material- is to light and highly volatile. Should be avoided by the astute roulette players at all cost.

So Kelly, I guess what you were trying to say regarding the ball types and it’s basic overall effect is as followed:

a) The amount of spin that the ball experiences are tied to the specific gravity of the material used.

b) Every material has a specific gravity, which is a measure of its weight- per- unit volume.

c) A ball produced from a lower gravity material will exhibit faster rotation about its own axis.

d) This spin energy must be completely exhausted before the ball can come to rest in one of the pockets.

e) Hence, the more spin energy the ball possesses, the greater the reaction as the ball contacts the pocket separators.

Kelly, I am new at this and just started 2 months ago, but I am a fast leaner.

SO SAY HELLO TO THE NEW KID ON THE BLOCK. ;D

CHEERS :wink:


#7

Just shortly as im doing 80 on the free way :-), you might wanna look at it slighly different than just seeing it as a uninteresting object.

If the average bounce is in the +27 pocket area, you might have an area of + 4 and - 4 pockets around the strike number that almost never receives a hit. So if your device is able to maintain avery good “strike point rate” you are facing a wheel with only 28 possible outcomes. The “good” thing about the spoon shaped and triangular pockets is that they almost never “holds” the ball when it drops. Which means that you already here can rule out some pockets.

So you now look at it this way: You play a wheel with a 1:28 rate which is not bad at all.

Comment on the ball post: Sounds almost as im talking to Ron Shelley here :-), do you have any of his books ?

Mike: Yep, the family is back on track and so am i. A tour is coming up from Friday afternoon until sometime wedensday. There is a potential really good wheel about 2.5 hours drive from here, i got a scout stashed up there and the feed back appears almost unbelievably good. See how it goes, the mapping is almost complete. Probably after tonight.


#8

The elimination theory sound like it might work for a more experienced player. But I have an extremely much more powerful weapon. I am using FFZ as more of a timing device using option 4 combined with VB techniques. I have done a whole lot of experimenting with this timer mixing it with VB techniques- - and I find it to be extremely effective when used a certain way. It’s way better than a thumping device.

I am able to clock the exact speed of the rotor and the ball speed - - and able to predict what area of the wheel the ball will fall with a very high accuracy rating on both level and tilted wheels. Accurate enough that I would only have to bet 3 neighboring numbers in actual real play with an average hit rate of about once every 6 tries. lets do the math

3 numbers per bet x 6 tries = 18 totals numbers bet on by the time I win a 35 to 1 payout, really 17 numbers since I get back the winning bet.

lets say I go through 90 spins hitting my number every 6th play. 90 devided 6= 15 wins

15/90= a 16.67% hit rate

lets assume we are betting $25 per number
than afrter 90 spins here are the results

75 losses = 25.00 x 75= (-1875.00)

15 losses of other 2 neighbor numbers = $50 x 15= ( -750)

15 wins= (25 x 35) x 15 = $13,125

wins $13,125 - losses $2625= net profit of $10,500.00 after 90 spins

Assuming I am getting about 15 bets per hour, and hitting one of my 3 neighboring bets every sixth spin, which has been the average win for me on both tilted and level wheels, means that I would be up over $10,000 after only 6 hours. So at that point I would either start loosing on purpose or just leave if I expect to be welcomed back at what ever casino I just hit.

I never heard of Ron shelley. What famous book did he write on the topic of roulette?


#9

Ron Shelley is a classic writer on details on roulette wheels. An oldie, but goodie.

http://www.gamblersbook.com/weblink.cby/detail/519602.html

Great book, is on my bookshelf.

You say you can predict very accurately where the ball will fall. Great ! Good start, but how do you know where to place your bets ?
Here is the scatter from 3 different scenarios.


(Notice that the scatter on the starburst on 0-1-2-3-4 etc. is actually 37-38-39 pockets scatter. Im not sure the ball material noticed is the correct. I have not been able to buy the ball type we tracked on the starburst.)

Im not trying to be a pain, but if same MO is used for all 3 wheel/ball types at least some of them will be dead wrong unless the MO is fitted to the map of each wheel. This is just the scatter part of the map, the real map has 4 features.

The elemination way to look at it, is what it is. A way to look at it. The real MO is obviously focusing on hitting as close as possible. The point is that you have the knowledge that the edge is real and that just because you are not hitting even if the ball comes down correct, is that your prediction is simply sleeping as well as a biased part of a wheel can sleep for a while even though it is biased.


#10

What TCS accomplished with the Starbursts was to eliminate pocket bias. That doesn`t mean that bias play on them is out of the question though.


#11

I have my own custom made mapping system that I use. It consists of examining at least 30 to 40 spins of a wheel with the same ball and same dealer. At the end of those 30 to 40 spins I would make a determination if I see a particular pattern that only the FFZ using option 4 would be able to pick up on. I don’t have to observe every single wheel 30 to 40 spins. I have a 12 check point list that would enable be to cross a wheel off my list before the first spin even begins.

Here is my 12 check points list

  1. Scatter has to be manageable (8 pockets or less 50% of the time)

  2. The ball size is not the smallest ball used of slightly less than 3/4 of an inch in diameter. Those balls are way too jumpy for me.

  3. The ball is not to bouncy, if it is, than it’s probably acetyl or nylon material which I always stay away from. I prefer a Teflon or composition material type ball that causes more of a dead drop.

  4. The dealer is not calling bets too early. If so, I’m out to scout a different table.

  5. The pockets had better be square and not to shallow looking. If the pockets are not square or look to shallow, than I out.

  6. The rotor is not adjusted at its highest level because that causes the ball to jump around when it hits the rotor. A rotor adjusted to a lower level causes more of a dead drop with very little scatter. As long as the rotor is not adjusted to high, than I am okay with it.

  7. The pockets have adequate pocket seperators. If the frets are to low or continuous, than I will cross that wheel of my list immediately

  8. The pocket seperators are not too thick, because the thicker the pocket seperator, the more space it takes away from the pocket itself that traps the ball. An extra thick pocket seperator causes the pocket itself to be smaller. thus, the smaller the pocket, the less control it has in trapping the ball.

  9. Looking for a wheel where the ball tends to drop and die quickly after it hits a deflector. If I can’t find such a wheel, I am okay with it, as long as the scatter is management - - 8 pockets or less at least 50 % of the time.

  10. The table has to have enough open space for me to squeeze in and place my 3 neighboring bets, since I actually never sit at a table - - but more observing in the background

  11. The rotor speed has to be within the range of my system, which is generally anywhere from a 4 second rotor to a 5.33 second rotor. Any rotor faster or slower than that, than I pass on. Which is the reason I do not sit at the table - - because I will only place a late bet when the rotor falls within that range.

  12. Also looking out for wheel that may have particular common drop points. Not that important to me, but it is nice to know if maybe 3 or 4 section of the wheel are being dropped on a lot heavier than the other sections of the wheel.

Also, I never will make it to placing an actual bet on a wheel unless the first 11 check points are satisfactory to me. IF I HAVE MADE IT THAT FAR INTO MY SYSTEM- - -than after the first 30 to 40 spins, BY THAT TIME , I will be well aware of what 3 numbers I need to bet on for that particular wheel which will of course vary from spin to spin- - - since I will know the exact wheel speed, and I know the exact ball speed that I calculate late in the roll using FFZ option 4 as a timer, and I all ready have a good idea how the ball will react once it hits the rotor- – and I also know what number the ball will most likely end up based on past wheel and ball speeds that was virtually identical to the present wheel and ball speeds.

So I am using observation and mapping the wheel just like you - - - but in my own custom made way. My method is so accurate because I know exactly when I have an exact wheel speed and ball speed to match that from a few rolls ago. But that only works if I properly screened out my first 11 check points. If the wrong ball is used, or the wheel speed is to fast or too slow, or the pockets are to shallow, or the frets are too low, or the rotor is adjusted to high up of the platform, or the dealer is calling NO BETS to early - --than IT WILL NOT WORK.

AS LONG AS IT’S THE SAME WHEEL, THE SAME DEALER, AND THE SAME BALL, and I properly screen out my first 11 check points, than things tend to work out pretty good, especially since I only need just 1 hit per 12 tries to break even - - - since I only bet 3 neighboring numbers per play. My average hit is generally once every 6 tries.

CHEERS :wink:


#12

okey doke. Sounds more like a pre selection of conditions rather than a actual mapping, but i guess it does the trick too. A real mapping consists also of air pressure which can influence equal conditions more than one would think. Laurance gave a good example once: Imagine you put a wheel into a air pressure chamber, then imagine you pumped the the air up to the same density as the ball/wheel material. That would cause the ball to never drop from the track but simply be locked. Good luck with it, in a few hours im off on tour.