The Rule of Law

The only Casino’s which provide a race track in Australia don’t provide the race track as a service to the punters. They have no choice, its the law, they have to. This is because its mentioned in the legislation, so if you want a race track at your Casino, challange the legislation and if the Magistrate weighs up all the arguments and decides that the Casinos are at an unfair advantage because there is no race track he will change the legislation and force all Casino’s in the state in which its challanged to provide a race track.

This is because all legislation written by polititions can be challanged in the courts, if a Magistrate decides the legislation does not provide natural justice to the citizen he will overrule what was written and change it so it does.

Question is,

What is the desired outcome?

If you want profit, challange it and if the Casino’s think there is even the slightest chance that the legislation will be re written making them provide a race track, they will pay you to settle out of court.

If you want every Casino in Australia to provide a race track don’t settle, do you see where I’m going with this.

It’s not the punter which fears the Casino, it’s the Casino which fears the educated punter.

My 2 cents worth.


Not sure if by law casino must have it since it is only an option.
Some casinos have 00 wheels without single zero wheel, it is legal.

Check the legislation from state to state and you will find that the states in which there is a mention of the race track and neighbours bets in the legislation also have a race track on every wheel in their Casino, the states which don’t mention the race track and neihbours bets in their legislation won’t have a race track on ant wheel and won’t even offer neighbours bets on rapid rulet. They will only offer it in the high rollers room because some of them just won’t bet without it.

The Casino’s won’t offer any service they don’t have to, i’ve been to every Casino in Australia but before i bet in any Casino i check the legislation so i know my rights and options and this is the reason i made the connection.

My legal studies teacher once said to me, I live the law, i breath the law, and not a day goes by when i don’t try to think of ways to work around it.


Must say i am very surprised, actually Im astounded my post on the Rule of Law has not drawn any comment, positive or negitive.

What i have put forward, if pursued in the Courts, could force YOUR local Casino to provide a race track on every wheel. I feel this is a very important subject and should be explored further.


:wink: Yes, I just don’t think people playing advantage techniques want to get on the bad side of casinos. If I know my wheel and can place my bet without neighbor bets (although I do like them) I do not need them. It is more a convenience than anything else.

On another note. I played on Saturday most of the day and on this wheel which I rather fancy a spinner was spun and it rotated +/- 8 times before dropping to the wheel. I lost that bet and it cost me 500 bucks cause I did call 23, 24 by 50. The gent sitting next to me who didn’t play then confronted the pit boss and said that it was a no spin because the ball ran on the number ring for more than 3 rotations. On this the pit boss agreed but said that the players or at least one player had to say ‘No Spin’ and the dealer would have to stop the ball. Could of saved me 500 bucks

Which casinos have racetracks? Adeliade, Perth, Alice Springs, Darwin and Cairns don’t, only one i’ve seen outside of rapid roulette in australia was a 00 in a perth private function room.

Noticed that perth and adeliade casino have recently swapped their low limit wheels with 00’s to scrape a few more $ from the lower limits so i highly doubt they’ll provied a racetrack option without being forced through law like you suggest. Take about legislature, this type of blatant profiteering, like this “Roulette Plus” bullshit needs to be closely scrutinized.

Yes your correct, the Casino’s often do this on the lower level wheels, and in the case of Blackjack, often you can’t play normal Blackjack on lower level tables, the Casino’s usually only have black jack Challenge on lower level tables so the odds are more in their Favour.

Don’t wish to insult anyone, however when people have lots of easily earned money to burn, they are not forced to think hard about how they spend it, and Casino’s know this is the case, and they have been able to prey on this fact and other’s relating to social Economic background in every state in Aus because the law makers were either incompetant, corrupted, or both when they wrote the legislation.

When people are forced to count every bean they don’t take the same risks. which means they are less likely to make rash and impulsive decisions with money, especially if gamgling.

From the Casino’s perspective the less wealthy people are more of a threat, because they are forced to think hard, so how do Casino’s counter this?

By making all lower limit wheels or tables higher odds in the Casino’s Favour. Lol.

It is my firm belief that all Casino’s operate in a predatory nature, much like criminal organisations do.

Casino’s operators, scrutanized, no, no, no, Casino operators need forced into submission to provide a fair game through the law, or completely and uterly squashed out of existance, like an Ant.

Now there is 1 Casino operator in Aus which is constantly riddiculed for not having the razzle and dazzle all the other Casino’s, it’s almost been removed from the Casino map, its the Casino which faced the most opposition when the idea of building a Casino was first raised in Parliament, and just happens to be in the Terriitory which has the tightest legislation, coincidence? i think not, however this Casino is without a doubt, the best Casino in Aus if your going to the Casino for the sole purpose of winning money.

This Casino is the Canberra Casino, which still turns a reasnonable profit, this Casino was squeezed into submission by the legislation, and there is not a god damned thing they can do about it, without challanging the legislation.

Every Casino in the world should be forced by law to operate under the same conditions.

Now lets look at Canberra, it’s is the home of the Federal Government, the home of the High Court of Australia, the Diplomatic centre of Australia, and the home of the Defence Force, and this is the place you end up going when Challenging State legislation, the reason for this is because when state law conflicts with Federal law, Federal law always overides State Law.

Canberra also has the best education system, the highest average income ($70,000 per annum), and the lowest crime rate, is probably the best place in Aus to raise a family, it’s just a shame the place is so boring, and so bloody cold in the winter time.


Hi Toxic, and by the way, love the Vig your building.

If you ever in my neck of the woods ill take you for a spin in my little project toy.

Hell, i might even throw you the keys if i know you can afford to replace it.

Not 100% where your playing, however i think that situation where you lost your chips, the dealer could of been incorrect in not returning your chips, and of course, taking back the chips from the people who won, however i’d have to look at your states legislation first before saying that with certainty, and even then, it’s not 100% until challanged.

A no spin, to my mind is a no spin, however when i get back to Aus, and get a little more time, ill check it and let you know based on your legislation and what i call the rule of 3, the literal meaning of the Act, the purpose of the Act, and the argument when there is doubt, which is the Golden rule, words of a feather flock together, which essentially means, the meaning of the word is determined by the words that surround it.

Might even be a good idea to take a copy of the legislation with you in future. You’d be surprised how quickly someone backtracks when you pull out the legislation in front of them, you might even smell the back track if they knowingly cheated you.

Dealers are employed in the industry, and therefore are expected to know the rules exactly, however many of them don’t, and the Casino’s prey on that as well.

Oh, just to be sure i am not overstepping the mark, this is not legal advise, just my opinion based on the little knowledge i have of the basics of Law and a person’s right to Natural Justice in Australia.

Oh and you never know, i might just be crazy in the eyes of some people, but from my perspective, looking at them all, it feels to be a freak. Lol.


Hey mate. Thx on the Vigi. Still alot of work though. What toy do you have? I am intrigued!

Yip, I do not know what our laws say but according to the dealer I would of had to call it a no spin once it did rotate more than 3 times. Because I didn’t query it, the result stood… That was his version of the laws anway. In future I will definately dispute it. It happens quite often on that wheel.

All the best.


How about rotor speed change during the spin?
That can be interpreted as interfering with the game results after the ball was spun.
Or the wheel changes the tilt.

I don’t know about such cases in AU but on other places such conditions exist.
Apparently, here to replace wheels with new ones took casino almost two years to get it approved.
So there is a lot of control, reporting few of your ideas to gaming commission board probably would make some influence.
I don’t believe AP player should dispute it inside casino.

Firstly i apologize if what i post here doesn’t flow or is not illegible, ( jet lagg).

I agree, changing rotor speed is in effect, tampering with the outcome of the spin. When you speak of this i feel your probably refering to places like Vegas, which as history records, is a place built by up around a criminal enterprize.

And yes, i don’t think it’s a wise move to notify the Casino directly,

The best option would be to ask and give the impression you don’t know either way, act dumb, however record the time, the dealer, the supervisor and notify the relevent authorities as it’s their duty, follow up and to make sure the rules of the game are adhered to by both player and Casino. Once notified they have a legal obligation to follow ensure the game is played according to the rules.

If they authorities don’t act then they are thearetically negligent and possibly therefore liable.

I think the important thing to remember is, with anything which involves the law it’s most important to be seen to be adhering to the law.

Some Casino’s and some players, in my view probably flout the law regularly, however if they are seen to be breaking the law then they could be in trouble, however it’s up to the player to pursue them.

If this is done in the courts, the regulations will be tightened further.

We are very lucky in Aus, and i think also in Britain as our laws stem from common law, hense the title Commonwealth,we have rights which have been laid down and refined ever since the signing of the magna carta, unfortunetely they have been erroded slightly since the 911.

Here is a link to the legislation in the A.C.T.

Study it, break it down pull it apart from every angle and if challenging in the courts the most important thing to remember is to never ever ask a question in a court of law unless you already know the answer.