The Importance of Tracking

Hi everyone, just thought id make a post on some recent experiences, hopefully you wont make the same mistake i did.
Id like to stress the importance of tracking, as Kelly puts it in another post, “take some pride in it”. Recently i found a table, the tilt was quite weak, but i believed it was still possible to take advantage of. Now I did note down the note the strike diamonds over a numbe of spins, however i rushed it a bit and without evaluating the scatter, i started playing. BAD IDEA!!
A slightly tilted wheel can behave in many different ways, and although i had a few hits, the ball just would not land in my sector. As i said before, this wheel was far from the perfect wheel for an AP, therefore in order for it to be taken advantage of, it would need thorough tracking, to the point that each and every little detail of the wheel is understood, and then on the day of play, more spins need to be watched just to confirm the data.
Guess it’s a learning experience, but guys dont put your money on the table unless you have tracked the wheel and know everything about it!

plus 1 m8

with a haevier tilt you may have got away with that style of attack
still waiting for that data of yours in TXT form


Hi Gambler/Securityman,

Can I ask you guys is there a benchmark of how many spins to track for a dominant diamond to show ?

And is there a benchmark of how many spins to track to produce an accurate scatter graph ?

This is all new to me and trying to learn the correct/best ways to gain the advantage with RC,



Hey secman, how are you? Yes as soon as I re-track the table I will post the data, then we shall se if i really was playing blindly or not.
D1 Im still learning as well, however it really depends on the wheel. Usually anywhere from 50-80 spins for me is enough to determine whether or not there is a dominant pin, however like i said it depends on the wheel. One time i played on a wheel where after watching 30 spins, 29 of them hit on the same diamond. Needless to say i didnt need to track the DD any further. As for scatter i asked forester and he said that 100 spins should be enough to see something.

Hi Gambler,

Thank you for that post,

gives me a good insight of where to start from,



In roulette, I don’t think there is such thing as a benchmark number of spins to determine anything. Each wheel is different as are each type of playing conditions. Also, each player is different. I’m sure a person like Kelly or Snowman would be able to determine the how beatable a wheel is much faster than I could, and I could determine how beatable a wheel is faster than a new AP could, and a new AP can determine how beatable a wheel is WAY faster than Secman can.

My advice is track until you know the wheel. I don’t mean track until you “think” you know the wheel, I mean track until you know for sure why things happen on that wheel. For example, if you see a result and you are off from your prediction you need to be able to know why you missed rather than just lump it into a “Random miss” category. I tell many of my friends that knowing why you lose is just as important if not more important than knowing why you win.

I suspect most player’s who are just starting out tend to become cocky as a result of one good session and then figure they have the wheel beat and then proceed to lose a buttload in the next few sessions by playing the same way they did when they won. They miss the differences in gaming conditions or little subtle variables that can ruin your ability to make good predictions. One of the worst things I think you can do is rationalize your losses as a “crazy bounce” or something like that and say the loss didn’t really count. Losses no matter what still count in terms of your bankroll, so you need to constantly be paying attention to all the little details and not let your ego rationalize your mistakes and as a result end up compounding them into something much worse.

In a nutshell, there is never such thing as too much data. Just make sure it’s good/detailed data and not crap that will confuse you or be completely useless later when you try to analyze it.

Very nice post and very true

@ Davey-Jones,

Thank you for such a detailed reply to my questions.

Each wheel is different,

each player is different,

track until you know the wheel. I don’t mean track until you “think” you know the wheel, I mean track until you know for sure why things happen on that wheel.

In a nutshell, there is never such thing as too much data. Just make sure it’s good/detailed data and not crap that will confuse you or be completely useless later when you try to analyze it.

And of course there is nothing like your level of expirience,

and that comes with time and practise.

I have a long way to go and a lot of learning to do,

but with detailed replies like that from you Davey and other forum members that have been most helpfull it makes things so much easier to understand for newbies like me.

Thanks again,

Kindest Regards,


Happy to help. Just remember, learning is the easy part, actually doing it is a whole other ball game. Anyone can hit a ball with a golf club, not everyone can do 18 holes below par.

Thanks for the information! I also agree that tracking is very important when playing roulette

hello everyone

ı would like to know your opinions about dealers spin style (ı dont mean fast or slow ) and scatter pattern.for example when we observe tennis ball if player hits the ball not straight but slice that ball fall down the floor and make an erraric english not good sorry

Scatter padron do depend on phisical conditions in play and is not offected by players oppinions.
To uswer your qeestion properly, you will need to define what do you call scatter padron, where you account it from and what is exactly spin stile for you.

dealers sometimes throw the ball smoothly without sound sometimes throw as if ball turning around its z axis (rotational) and we hear sound of it sometimes they rub the ball against the balltrack and throw…all are different spin styles…ı asked ıf this different spin styles may ınfluence the bouncing pattern? and maybe this different spins may also affect the ball deceleration times between rotations?
ı wish now this is more clear explanation.regards…

Yes it will affect timings. Whatever if it will affect scatter padron will depend on
First, if additional rotation persist till moument of collision
Second, where from do you account scatter.
Best way is to dermine it yourself in any given situation. Track

yes track every little detail in its own conditions ı agree with you.

[quote=“M.M., post:16, topic:714”]I always track 100 spins before playing. I mark every way of D hit with different symbol: if ball hits diamond at the top, and ball bounces over D, it is very unpredictable where it will land, and I mark hit like that with +. If ball hits diamond in the middle, with normal speed, i mark that spin with O. Perfect D hit, when ball hits it with minimum speed, and ball just softly fall on rotor, i mark with . (dot). So after 100 spins i have rough view in this day conditions.
So result in my case should look something like that:
DD hits: SD hits:
35% . 15% O
15% O 20% +
15% +

I play only when conditions are ideal - as many DD . and O symbols. When you take conditions into account (air), it is realy clearly visible how something affect the ball and when it will be perfect day to play. This roulette is airball, so I dont need to bother with dealer sweaty or not sweaty hands, only variable is air through which ball travels. I would never rely on data from the other day, because ball deceleration is different when air is different, so pre-tracking is crucial. In my case, betting sector move 5-6 pockets at exactly the same rotor speed just because of different ball deceleration - or in other words - difference in time from taking my reference number to D hit.[/quote]Wellcome to forum, we need more reasonable people here.