I am new to this part of the forum, and have recently got interested in VB2. I sent Forester an email with a few questions and observations and he suggested that I put them on here. The first is a method that I was working on a while back and wrote up for discussion. It seems to have some similarities with VB2. I am posting it as it leads into some questions that I have, and I hope you can help me with.
"Here is something that I have been knocking around for about year or so it is another way of doing VB. I have since heard that it has similarities to Foresters VB2, however I arrived at this solution completely independently.
The premise is simple:
If you were to have a constant beat (thumper, metronome, abcd abcd etc.) set at say 1 second beats. Now if you spin the ball and watch it as it slows down, once it reaches a speed of approximately 1 rotation/second you will see that every time the thumper beats the same number is under the ball for approx half a dozen revolutions. Try it next time at a casino just use abcd, over and over in your head and you should see what I mean.
When I first noticed this phenomenon I wondered if it were possible to use it to my advantage. As written above it doesn’t, the following is where I am at right now, note that this is still work in progress.
First you have to assume that you have a wheel with a dominant diamond (as usual) say you set your beats at 1 second apart for the time being. And choose a temporary reference point on the wheel, say a 12 o clock diamond.
The ball is spun, you wait until it is a little faster than 1 sec per revolution, this is the hardest part, then as it passes your ref point start your thumper/head count/ metronome. You will see for the next 3 or 4 spins that the ball will be over the same number on the thump. Note the number and see where the ball drops off. Lets assume that the ball dropped onto the rotor at 3 o clock to your number. As an example the number that you noted was 0 and the number that the ball struck the rotor was 17. this would be at 3 o clock.
Rinse and repeat for a few times, you should notice that the ball keeps dropping at 3 o clock using the above example.
What you do now is to offset your reference point to take this into account, in the above example you offset your ref point to the 3 o’clock diamond. now when you try with same rotor speed and DD, when you take your reading from the new ref you should find that the ball will strike the rotor on your prediction.
I hope that this is clear, of course in the real world you will have to adjust for scatter and rotor speed to suit, as per usual.
As I said above, this is work in progress, it is simple to use, and I think that there is potential to start to determine which diamond will hit based upon the distance that the ball travels after say 3 or 4 beats, but this seems to be a little more tricky."
Since writing this I have found that there is another factor that comes into account, and this is to do with different deceleration of the ball. For example originally I was testing this idea out on Bob Gordons spins, on a Huxley wheel, however when I tried it on a local Cammegh it wouldn’t work so I had to increase the length of time to 1.5 seconds as the 1 second timing lost “linearity” quite quickly.
Part of the reason that I developed this idea was because I wanted to try and use some kind of 1 second marching pattern to see if I could determine if the ball was going to hit the dominant diamond or not. I never really resolved this problem.
Foresters “Evolution” thread also got me more interested, as knowing an exact ball revolution can be tricky at best. I had found problems with the ball deceleration method. I could always spot the deceleration on my videos but it was out - or + 1 so that wasn’t good enough. I eventually settled on a head counting method of my own with a combination of 1 sec marching patterns, then I could get it right pretty well every time.
The biggest hurdle that I am finding with VB methods is this, as I see it even if you have a dominant diamond two problems arise whilst playing.
â€¢ Other diamonds hit, and unless you have some kind of optimum rotor speed your predictions are likely to be out.
â€¢ The speed of the ball as it approaches the DD will vary and thus hit it in different places creating different scatter. It seems to me that VB relies on tracking for what seems to be the most popular ball jump. So unless you get a sharp peak on your scatter graph, then, even when the ball hits the DD you still have a similar problem to the above and you are a little in the hands of the gods. So even if you use these techniques the fluctuations could be huge at times. Of course I do accept that this is the way things are with VB.
So what to do? Who knows, but I have given it some consideration.
For the first problem I figured that you could check the data to determine if any of the numbers hit from different diamonds overlap with predicted ones at specific rotor speeds. However this could still be a bit hit and miss, but is better. Bebidictus has an interesting idea where he uses his “triangular” method, as written in this VB2 forum, which is something that I will look into further.
Everyone appears to condemn Laurances crossover patterns as old fashioned. In his first book, he at least has a potential solution for other diamonds hitting, which is to use cross over analysis. That is that when the crossovers occur there are 3 passes of the ball over the 0s. and these passes of the ball generally make 3 distinct patterns, which he says can determine if the ball is likely to drop in the same octant or -/+ 1 octant. Unfortunately no one seems to be able to tell me if a comparative analysis can be done with other methods. And yet I have read on several occasions that there are ways for doing this.
Regarding the second problem of the ball hitting the diamond at different speeds I have no clue as to how you could determine this by eye alone, unless you use some kind of device, or a bigger bet spread. The only thing that I can say about these two problems with a degree of certainty is that if you could bet on the last rotation of the ball you might have an idea by looking at the speed of the ball as to whether it will hit the diamond and where it will hit approximately, but this is too late of course. It wouldn’t surprise me if there are people who can do this several revs out.
Is there a way to overcome these problems in any way using VB2, as it stands, or can it be adapted in some way to take these factors into account?