Revision FFa Viper

I will make here a start of revision of new ultimate Vipers FFA Device.
I tested yesterday in casino, with in a two pins wheel. Mark Huxley, from the middle of 90s.
I have to say that is very hard take advantage of it because the 2 pins are not very strong and altough the ball impact in them many times, the impacts sometimes are timids, makeing that the ball do rollings. Also there are other diamonds horizontal that are between this two pins and when ball hits on them, is common see a rolling random. But if the ball hit on the DD have in usual a predectible scatter like 14 pockets.
Although the difficults, i tryed to review ffa Viper in this “hard scenario”. Days ago i did a map of the wheel and after 400 spins, the ball hits in diamonds were:

45% at 12DD (vertical)
40% at 3DD (vertical)
10% at 1DD (horizontal)
5% Rest of diamonds (others)

My decision was focus in the 12DD and try to avoid the 1DD and 3 DD. I take around 14 spins to set and observe the times, and after that i could see the best window to play. I didnt play because i Was only testing. Also, i was recording the air preassure of the table who was 1008 hpa at the moment of test.
I start to get predictions and i was seeing how FFA was predicting with extremelly precision, very very accurate. My clocking was also very good. It avoids 90% of bad spins. The system after each spin was saying me the times, and i could observe how this times were all into my previous defined range, When system was saying “TOO LATE” the ball hits other diamonds. Amazing.
If system Says “too late” and ball hit DD, i was writing it to do a more defined range, so the user with viper FFA will be always in the Crew, takeing the maximun advantage possible of each situation.
The predictions was prfects, all in a range of 5 pockets.
The “now” of the system were always perfect too.

After some time (maybe an hour) the air preassure start to changed a bit from 1008 passed to 1009,5. Really air preassure can do a veeeery little shift on the times, but anyway will be dependent of the wheel. The air had more density in 1009 than in 1008, so the ball had more resistance. This changed the times like 10%, this means that the ball start to travel a little slower, the 90% of the times were same that the 1008 air preassure, but i saw how times more slower started to appear ocasionally.

No problem!! hehe, how i was being recording all in all moment the times i followed the conditions and i started to take advantage of this new situation in very few spins. Is important know that air preassure will not change the remaining time, but depending of the wheel, can change (a little) the times. Anyway the times will be the same in a 80% if the conditions change, so people not have to be fear of it.

In summary if i have to put a note to the new computer i would put a 9.5. I dont give it the 10, because 10 is perfection, and perfection not exists.
(Maybe if forester do the remote switch i will put a 9,9 hehe).

This is the best roulette computer done ever.

I will continue makeing reviews of this amazing tool in other moments :wink:

Regards to all the members of forum, specially to Viper, the crazy Greek.

Oppps i forget the more important thing hehe.
I converted a 2 pin wheel with 45%-40% in 2 diamonds (12 and 3) into a one pin wheel with 90% of hits in the same diamond. :smiley:

Thanks mate, if you notice any bug let me know.

The FFA has improved same as your English in 4-5 years since I know you. ;D

I know you spend much time in casino.
You should try unlimited part, get full power of FF, speed accuracy, flexibility ;).
Set the set spin somewhere in middle of 12 and 3 o’clock (3 o clocks time with clocked last ¼, except if you going to play scatter overlap)

After some time (maybe an hour) the air preassure start to changed a bit from 1008 passed to 1009,5. Really air preassure can do a veeeery little shift on the times, but anyway will be dependent of the wheel. The air had more density in 1009 than in 1008, so the ball had more resistance. This changed the times like 10%, this means that the ball start to travel a little slower, the 90% of the times were same that the 1008 air preassure, but i saw how times more slower started to appear ocasionally.

You really take care for details. It is interesting. Yes it wouldn’t change remaining time, except if the change is extremely drastic. In usual it is only small change but still within singe rotation times. That’s why for easier configuration the Viper has only one ball speed setting, so you can easily shift it while remaining settings can stay same.

Yes it is very entertaining to hear ball times with every spin.
Only at
Keep winning!

Nice to hear a review from you Manuleon !
Thanks for the nice words ! :smiley:

I really admire you passion and patience in standing so many hours in front of a wheel!


Yes, information is = power. in the times that we live, who have information have the power.
For people who wants more information about air preassure, there is a very intersting post at kellys blog.
He speaks how the air preassure have an impact on a “semi tilted wheel”, changing the frecuencys of hit at the diamonds. If i remember well, is a dramatic scenario because he speaks of changes happened between hours. To play VB or RC is not neccesary play for hours. So really air preassure have an effect, but people dont have to fear it.
Of course, more tilt on the wheel, the less changes will be.
Today is not very common find wheels with only one DD (but exists, and i found a lot)…But is much common find wheels with 2 DD. I would say that is very normal to see a wheel with 2 DD.
Playing a wheel with 2DD with new ffa Viper is a good way to make money (And sure the best i know)

Yes Viper, sometimes is very hard stand for hours in front of a wheel and map it correctly, but the payment is bigger than any job and that is the point that we dont have to forget.

I could seem optimist, but i really think that, with the information we have (VB, FFA, Bias…), if people dont win is because they dont want win or because they dont are disposed to do the effort to do things well and ok. Of course that never is easy, but the history is full of succes players.

In Bias you have Jaggers, the itallian syndicate, Albert Hibbs, Roy Walford, Allan Wilson, Robert Bowers, Artemeo Delgado, Helmuth Berlin (“The nazi German”), Richard Jarecki, Gonzalo Pelayo, Billy Walters…The list bigger and unlimited…

People think that today is impossible play bias, but they dont know that 99% of the things that they have read/heard is bad or false.

In VB there are too a lot of successful players, like Kaisan, Basieux…

Playing with roulette computer there is a evident example like, Lazlo Sandor Kovacs, and of course the Ritz team that contrary to what people think they succesful looks rare and a bit questionable.

There are many people that today still kicking the as s of the casinos, but is obvious that they dont wanna be identified (myself i know many of them).

So the ways are summary in 2 steps.

  1. Know the information.
  2. Be willing to do it.

The first thing is the hardest, the second is in our hands.

And yes Forester, i will test unlimited mode, but in this moment i have a lot of love with Viper mode, anyway i will test it next day.
Can you summary the advantages and disadvantes of unlimited system???’
Viper mode is very hard to improve ( i would say impossible).

Also dont forget fast rotors, with FFA Viper, fast rotor is not a problem (2 secs maximun and do full rotor clocking), i dont know how a fast rotor can influence in unlimited mode…


[quote=“manuelon, post:6, topic:638”]And yes Forester, i will test unlimited mode, but in this moment i have a lot of love with Viper mode, anyway i will test it next day.
Can you summary the advantages and disadvantes of unlimited system???’
Viper mode is very hard to improve ( i would say impossible).

Also dont forget fast rotors, with FFA Viper, fast rotor is not a problem (2 secs maximun and do full rotor clocking), i dont know how a fast rotor can influence in unlimited mode…


With unlimited you play same as before but you know how good your setting is.
When you setting viper if you leave settings after a spin which tells you time close to your viper setting, you have perfect set for unlimited play. (In such case you can play viper and in any time switch to unlimited)

The advantage is that dealer can’t screw you with calling earlier NMB,

You do not have to do clocking until ball is at particular speed, you can predict at any ball sped/rotation.

With multiple predictions you can see range how the system predicts in different times during the spin.

If you need earlier predictions on a second prediction (4 rotations) you may actually achieve higher accuracy then with viper.
The difference is that with viper you can set any deviation, and on that way you actually specify exact percentage of predications, while with unlimited it is 30, 60 or 90% based on A,B,C that system tells you after prediction.

Surely the Viper is more accurate but only at specific ball speed range, because unlimited predicts at any time it has to make additional calculations which may inject some errors, but in usual it is close to same results when prediction time is within few rotations. It means if you set the Viper to predict in 5th, unlimited will give you same results if prediction happened in 5th ball rotation, but in 4,5,6,7,8,9 it may be less accurate, where chance of same result slowly decreasing with earlier predictions. If rotor is not fast there is not much to worry, to predict at any time but with a faster rotor is better to target unlimited to predict at about same time.

Unlimited has an additional feature where it deviates ball remaining traveling time based on clocked balls speed. It is more useful on a wheel where the ball deceleration is higher. Also it may be better with fast rotor if Vipers time frame is set to be wide.

The FFA R7 is the fastest, the most accurate and the most flexible roulette computer.

Ok Forester, thanks for repply. In the present post i will dedicate a few minutes to research in details to help users to take the best decision in the typical situations that will have during a session, playing Viper mode with new FFA. Only people who test will have one day this kind of situations…

One of the problems that user can have in the practice is when is playing a wheel with 2 Pins consecutive (like 12dd and 3dd in cw mode) is that sometimes, (always depending of the wheel), the times of the good hits at 12dd can be mixed with times IN NEXT REVOLUTION with times of 3DD.
To be more clear i will put here a real example to let the people understand

In first two columns we have the times of 2 spins where the ball hit at 12DD. We have the times that the ball did on each revolution. We have set the system in accuracy 5. We have the times from the first revolution to the end of the spin. We see how if we can predict in 12DD range, we have to set it to a range close to 1363-1459. All the speeds within this range have a big possibility of hit at 12DD.

12DD 12DD
763 735
864 839
1127 1066
1459 1363
1600 1556
1749 1690
2036 1912
2283 2218

Buuuuut, we are playing and we have a prediction, so we think, ohhh good…but in this case we see that the fucking ball not hit on DD, it hit on 3DD!!!
What could be happening? The system did all ok, because the ball was traveling in our range speed , so? why hit next diamond? change of conditions? Noooo, in this case the explanation is here


In this case, the time of 5th was out of my range, with 1183, the system avoided it ok, but because we still clocking the time of next revolution the system will detect the speed 1431 and will make a prediction. That prediction would be good if ball hit on 12 DD with the remaning time of 5 revs out, but in this case the prediction will be bad because the ball wil’l have another remaining time and also the ball will hit on 3dd.

In this case we cant do nothing and if happens we have to fuck us and play with the -2,7%. Is not usual, but can happens. The times i post are real times, i didnt invented it.

So the user can have the next options and this must be the procedure (i post it another times)

  1. System make predicttion, ball hit DD, the user heard the time and is between the defined range. All Ok, happy winnings :slight_smile:

  2. Syetme not predict, ball not hit DD, the user still clocking to the end of the spin and after 8 secs, he heard the time and good, was out of range. All ok, happy save of money. :smiley:

  3. System not predict, the user still clocking the ball to the end of the spin , ball hits on good dd (12dd) and after 8 secs, he hear the time. He can do 2 things, or redefine range doing it more precise, or think in a possible change of conditions (rare). Next step can play or only observe and compare ranges. In this situation maybe the user did a bad clock. But all is under control.

  4. And the hard situation, The system predicts, but ball not hit dd. FUCK. 2 possible things, or change of conditions, or the ball not did the revolutions ok, and times of next revolution of 3dd where mixed with the good times (LIKE THE EXAMPLE i put). The user will be confused. One of the 2 things have happened. We can see if conditions changed (we can check air preassure with the clock to understand).

I have to say that is not a very common situation, will be as alwys dependant of the wheel. But can happen.

Any solutions? i have an idea:

If the time of a previous revolution is veery close to our desviation and next time is between our range, system shoiuld avoid it,making a kind of error.

Another option is do a combined formula with deceleration+ball speed, maybe shows anything.

Any other ideas???

For sure i only pretend improve .


Maybe a good solution is, do a big range that takes of the spins clocked in 5th, and no matter if the ball hit on 3dd or 12dd. We take all the big window range that have produced all the ball speeds of spins clocked. (if we do this is important not clock the last cuarter of revolution when ball hit at 3dd).
After prediction if system gives us an “A”, then ball go to DD, if gives a “B” ball more often go to Bad diamond. For work properly the user would have to enter the range of A and B manually based in the sample he take.
Is like mix unlimited mode with vipers mode.

If we put this measure, we will have all under control, because the system always will predict in the range. When we will be clocking the bad speed will enter in our range before than the good ball speed of next revolution of bad diamond, and system will say “B”, so we know that we have to avoid it…

We will continue…

If the time of a previous revolution is very close to our deviation and next time is between our range, system should avoid it, making a kind of error.

If you have set time 1200 to 1300ms
You take same spin clock it and you get
1195 next rotation 1295ms and the system predicts
There is no reason to avoid it if you do not want to play 1295ms you should readjust the limits.
When the ball speed is closer to higher number (1300), earlier revolution will be closet to smaller number (1195), so we can’t get much help from that.

(maybe if we add ball deceleration then if time limits are like only 50% of full rotation we can let system know something is wrong, but for something so wrong to happen it’s close to impossible.
(The difference in ball traveling distance after prediction in usual is not caused because the ball at the moment of prediction were decelerating differently, even if it did it is only few millisecond difference. )

I assume you would want Viper to have A, B, C as Unlimited has so it tells you how close the clocked ball speed is to the centre of perfect prediction.
For example 1200-1300, than 1290-1300ms may be marked as C class prediction, you may play but less amount of chips since 30% of that ball speeds range may end up somewhere else and you stil want to take an advantage form remaining 60%.

I read MANULEON post and the best thing that we shoyld add in the system is this (I think Forster s idea was same )

When prediction time is close to the left or right of out SET window we should hear A or C.
And when prediction time is close to the CENTER of our time we should hear B…

So as Forester said with the B we can place bigger chips…with the A or C we can place less chips OR NO chips at all! Depending of our observation.,.,…because in some wheels the A and C can still have a great chance to be hitting our main DD.
Or even better if the rotor has a 3-5 secs/rev maybe the 2 pin game can be active…so by hearing the A or C the ball can make 1 rev shorter and got the next DD with the same overlap possition …so out bets will still be in an advantage position…

So be having A B C we can Manage our play as we like depending on the conditions of the wheel…
This will make the “VIPER” MORE ACCURATE but at the same time MORE SAFE and MORE FLEXIBLE (2 pin game)

THANK YOU MANULEON for ur great observation :wink:

Thanks Forester and thanks Viper for the repplys.
I dont know why peopledont focus more attention to FFA Viper, is the best of the best.

So to solve the problem, we need A, B and C indicators, but would be very good if user can define ranges manually. Will be perfect, like unlimited system but with vipers mode.

Is possible do it Forester?

I believe that those edje ranges should be preseted and not manual…because then we will add more seting ups…
Let s keep things a little more simple…

A,B,C marks
No mark- center
A mark means AFTER - shorter times close to the smaller border - ball can have energy and can hit next diamond(s)
B mark means BEFORE - longer times close to higher border - ball can hit diamond before.
For both Viper & Unlimited same marks meaning.

That s good mate! The best Idea !

So we don t need to waste 1 sec in realising the A,B or C…

Also with a slow rotor we can play the B (2pin game) and with a fast rotor we can play the A(because the rotor if is fast the overlap position may also be same…

This is getting better and better!!! I am glad that we have here nice APers and we are making better developments

Very very good ABC, i like a lot this idea.

All correct viper except if ball hits next diamond an rotor is fast (2 to 2,5)
Viper i think that with fast rotor, if you target 12dd and ball hit at 3dd, prediction will be around 14 pokets far. Example if prediction is 0 if ball hit at 12dd will hit on 0 (close) but if hits 3dd the ball will hit around 27-13-36. The ball travel around 500 ms more in that last quater (from 12 to 3dd), the difference between diamonds is 10 pockets, so the rotor if is fast (2,5 to 2) will travel around 4 pockets in the other direction. so 10 of ball+4 of rotor, around 14 pockets more far. If rotor is 2 secs will be around 16-17. pockets. If rotor is faster than 2 secs, then better is not play.
If the wheel has scatter from 0 to 18 in the advantage area (typical of huxley) then you still having advantage if you play with offset of +14 because the ball will hit exactly in your area, if no bounce you win. That is the scatter overlap phenomena, very common in huxley wheels that have 2 pins of scatter, in bounce 0 and in bounce around 15.
If rotor is slow, and prediction is 0, ball will hit around 17-34-6 (10 pockets).

If rotor is slow, and ball hits at 9dd (and you target 12), if rotor is slow (slower than 3,5) then ball will hit exactly in your area.

If rotor is fast and ball hits at 9dd (and you target 12), if rotor is fasr (from 2 to 2,5) then ball will hit about 10 pckets far from your prediction.

But yes Viper, we can take the advantage of 2 pins game.

There are more factors, for exaple if you lose a revolution and rotor is fast and ball hit on 3dd, if your prediction was 0, the ball will hit around -14 pockets from 0, so will hit around 14-31

Is not my intencion correct you, only share my observations.


This question to Forester.
The times we heard in set and after each spin is the ball speed of the target revolution or is a formula that have more things???

Its curious that in 2 days test:

1st day the times in acc5 that hit 12dd were 1450 to 1520. The air preassure was 1008-1009 hpa

2nd day the times in acc5 that hit 12dd were 1445 to 1510. THE SAME!!

All the ball speeds out of that range hit on another diamond (more often 3dd in cw and 9dd in acw)

For that i thing that the times we hear is not only the ball time in the lap. I think you added something more. Yes?

Each day have around 100 spins.


This question to Forester. The times we heard in set and after each spin is the ball speed of the target revolution or is a formula that have more things???

Calculation does more things but for you that shouldn’t matter, it doesn’t affect consistency in any way.

Also what you were explaining is playing sectors, which can produce same results in many occasions.

I was explaining it in Jacob’s thread. When advantage is created on 9, 12 or 3 o’clock diamonds even if we miss.

With Viper you can know any times and select the best what suits you.
For example 5.25, 6 to 6.26 rotations.
If you want to play all then set it for all ;D

How someone can be so silly?

Viper sent me a link to Stefano’s comments about new FF system.

I do not understand why Stefano is attacking me? :’(

For months I never talked about him. All the time he claims how he is a victim of competitors or stupid customers who couldn’t use his system properly. Now when I explain how stupid his post and video is he will again cry that I hate him just as a competitor and of course it has nothing to do with stupidities he wrote.

Perhaps with video he published he can throw some dust to people without understanding, but any advantage player who took a better look will actually see that it is a perfect prove why Stefano’s system is badly designed, even worst then a standard commonly used way of predicting tilted wheel with computer.

If video is still there you can watch it and take note of this.

First look how long from moment he presses the switch takes his computer to start talking.

The ball makes about ½ rotations until system starts talking (it’s about 0.5 sec.). It is so miserable and poor performance.

How someone who wants to compete and telling people stories about the best roulette computer couldn’t make better than that?

Take any video and see how fast the FF can do it. It is instant for naked eye, but it takes 0.5 milliseconds which 1000 times faster than Stefano’s computer.

Program he used in mobile phone is Java, simply it can’t perform. Java can make you nice menus and manage pictures, (if you are up to that) but definitely it’s not suitable for timing applications. This explains why instead asking some Indian or Pakistany guy to write me Java program (only few hundred dollars) i build costume devices and program it with the world’s fastest language machine code.

Previous part explained how the FF is 1000 times faster than mobile phone roulette computers and the next part explains how Stefano “the promoter” of mobile phones doesn’t have understanding how to design roulette computer.

From his explanation it is obvious that he completely doesn’t understand benefits and idea of Viper system or any way how to define particular time frame for better roulette prediction.

Of course he made a video with meaning “look at me I already have it” but what he showed in his video is actually complete misunderstanding, most kids from high school would understand more.

(By the way Stefano the owner of Genuine winner site is scientist and researcher only in his head, I found out that he doesn’t have any formal qualifications in any field (he did finish high school). I assume time he spent in jail for previous scam doesn’t count as scientific education.)

On video he showed nice Java graph, and how his computer registering clocked ball speeds.
It is not time values (example 1.152ms as the FF can deliver) but as a digits form 1-37.
It means about 20 ms step range (20 x worse than the FFA can define)

I can accept that it’s not so precised as the FFA, but that is not such big problem as demonstrated lack of understanding.

The graph is only recorded ball clocked times. It means after every single spin the player have to run to toilet look on screen what did computer record and run back to take more samples. If he just do clocking more spins he will not be able to know what is what and what happend to the ball each time.
On the graph he may see, dealer spun;

1100ms 10 times
1120ms 5 times
1140ms 3 times
1160ms 5 times
1180ms 5 times
1200ms 3 times

(about 20 ms the best resolution) :-\

If coincidently he had more spins around 1100 ms and less around 1200ms computer will show around 1100ms to play, but that is not a time frame to play but a coincidence that at that moment at the table clocked ball times were mostly within that range. Next 10-20 spins that could be more around 1200ms, his computer judgement is based on nothing but coincidence how dealer spun the ball. And he says computer can automatically decide what to play, ouch. ::slight_smile:

So it is not only that Stefano’s mobile phone roulette computer is so poor in measuring time, but it is wrongly designed without much of understanding. Based on what he explained it sets targeting time when the system will predict based on coincidences. No wonder his customers complain so much.

It’s impossible to define time frame just by recorded ball speeds if the player doesn’t have additional information and that was the Vipers idea which I will not fully elaborate here.

Stefano in his post definitely explained how his computer is always wrongly set. Well done.

Another interesting thing is how he is trying to discredit the FF believing people need to go to toilet to set it. Which of course is a ridicules claim? The FF is designed for professionals play. The player never needs to leave the table and he can do all settings at the table. The FF talks to the player all information and settings. Computers which use displays as Stefano’s are not practical. You can see even on his videos that he has to take it in his hands to set it or to change something…ouch. How that can be a professional tool? To set the FF all I need is a switch in my hand or under my toe.

While I do not have problem understanding logic or technical issues, I still do not understand why he needed this rubbish and why he started attacking me again? :-[

I told him many times if you have issues, send computer to one of serious players from this board and let’s talk about it. It is better then arguing and presenting stupidities for last 5 years.

For someone who doesn’t know, Stefano often uses manipulation how he does supply computers for free to share profits from winnings, it’s to look more serious to uninformed and na ¯ve people. But that’s only his talk, when it comes to send it he always finds an excuse to refuse and to run away.

Logic is that there is no person at this board who even loving the FFA wouldn’t mind using something else if it is better. I always say; no hard feelings.

Even I wouldnt mind to use something else if it is better 8)

But until then; this is what owners of FF roulette computer said in the survey.

What do you think about Steven Hourmouzis products?

• No idea (20.8%)
• Scam (70.8%)
• I believe it has potential, but needs improvement (8.3%)
• It is a very good product (0%)
• Amazing product (0%)

No single person claimed Genuine Winner product is any good. :-X

Do not worry Viper, it is your original idea, and I definitely don’t have problem understanding full benefits. Stefano is still far even from basics understanding. ;D

When someone does not have something that worths, then the only thing that he can do to make it look that it worths is attacking his competitors.

Viper software is the best RC software calculation that a RC can provide…with it we have a complete map of any wheel that it can prodide an advantage…

Not only we can have the perfect set of the perfect window but while we are in play we can know IF and When the conditions are changing and we can either stop or set a new window to folow the new conditions.