Hi guys,
I have a question with which I would like the more experianced VB players opinions.
I am new to this VB idea and am far from a gambler but am interested by the physics so have been looking into it this past week so if nothing else I am very green! So here we go.
Looking at the computer and visual princples of timing the ball on the wheel with a DD strike point will understandably give an advantage to a skilled player (Would need to see this in a real time enviroment to conclude its truely possible to obtain this skill and not just boil down to luck) but leads to not being able to be played on a leveled wheel for obvious reasons. If lets say the player was timing the ball using whatever method but being able to pick the exact area of revolution the ball hits the required time to obtain the number on the wheel at that point do you think a skilled player would be able to predict on a levelled wheel?
“exact area of revolution”
If he can do that then yes he would be able to play level, the problem is I can’t believe someone can do it since even defining fill ball revolution is not easy.
I know the pure physics would allow it but lacking time spent at the casino I did not know taking variance of a wheel in a real casino if it would be feasible so its good to get an advanced players opinion.
I was going to expand the physics involved to characteristics of differance in the ball but infomation I read yesterday and foresters appraisal seem to suggest timing the ball plus rotar correctly would be enough for an edge if certain things exist, of course from the current casinos it seems a leveled wheel is likely to be more available for play, if looking for a biased wheel i could find that frustrating so a trip to the den is in order for some information.
As ever keeping an open mind may help us realise more so if any others have anything to add please do.
The only way a level wheel can be beaten is if a bias exists. If you want to apply VB, then you must focus on reasonably tilted wheels to get an edge. Forget about dealer signature, it is completely useless nowadays.
There is no better training than exercising yourself in the Casino, with a beatable wheel. Train your eyes to the ball revolutions, the decay, the sound, the ball used, study the diamond strikes, and their respective ball scatter. From this point you can judge if the wheel is worth your time or not.
Thanks for the input Bago. I agree with your sentiments as I expect most will regarding the tilted wheel and I personally doubt dealers signature was ever possible to be applied for advantage over the long term but keep an open mind. But does that make a leveled wheel unplayable and at what point is this decided?
My original thought when doing the post was to gather experianced users opinions and see if there exsists a common ground or principle where the complicated physics that are not in any way possible to equate in live play merge to form a more useable trend due to the fact certain areas can be deemed as constant in some cases.
Another facet is cognitive ability, not everyone is the same or even close to have a norm to apply for society as a whole. For example its likely it is not possible for me to ever drive a formula 1 car at its maximum but that does not mean no one can and in roulette VB its likely to be the same where some can operate to a much higher level which others cant comprehend. Would you say if I cannot do it then no one can or some can make money others cant, depends on ability!
I am very much for nature in sports and cognitive ability then nurture the potential, I cannot believe eveyone can run as fast as usain bolt in pro athletics at this present time regardless of effort and its likely the potentially gifted indivdual capable may never have stepped on a track so at that point do you deem it impossible or just a matter of time before we see better.
For a levelled wheel about 3 ms difference in ball speed represents one pocket in distance. Even if everything is measured perfectly you can expect about 12 pocket deviation in results because of difference how the ball travels down the ball track and deflection on diamonds.
Furthermore roulette levelled wheel is more sensitive to changes if playing the player has to be very alert and notice everything to be able to readjust.
Without any equipment the player would have to be able to notice ball speed within very narrow time frame for example 1200-1240ms.
The only VB for levelled wheel that I know about is VB I use to play, E2.
It’s really observing ball in about 4.5s time frame then multiplying the difference by 3.
For example we start when the ball is over the zero, after 4.5 sec the ball is again above zero the then the difference is 0, multiplied by 3 it gives us reference number “0”.
If we misjudged same spin and started ¼ rotations later at number 34.
The ball is a bit slower, in 4.5 sec it will not reach to number 34 but to number 2.
Now from number 34 to number 2 we have 3 pockets, if we multiply it by 3 we get 9 pockets, so it points again to same reference number zero. (or just add 3 + 3 from number 2)
If you understand this then you can also understand how the player can make mistake of 40 ms and because of system still get it right. player can be 2-3 rotations wrong in judging the moment when to start and still get good results. (less is better)
Because of balanced time even the rotor speed change is close to covered.
If in 4.5 sec the rotor made 5 extra pockets, now that change is made because of rotor we will still see it as 5 pockets difference multiplied by 3 it makes 15. Additional 10 from position where the ball is, which is close since “reference time” : “remaining time” for ball traveling is about 1:2.
Thanks Forester,
It is amazing how small fluctuations in time can have a significant effect in the overall picture. Have been testing the E2 system as it seems easier than VB2 for me. Now I am looking how I can improve my own possibilties to be more accurate which having little knowledge is ever present but as a level wheel system it is showing good insight.
I am not really looking at this as a money thing as it seems the odds may be shifting towards the casinos, if I discovered this ten years ago I may have thought differently. So aiming at a level wheel seems more of a challenge due to this is what the casino wants to achieve and a challenge is what in essence this represents to me, breaking even seems a good goal to aim for.
The forum is a rich source of information if digested correctly and the FFZ computer seems the muts nuts though at present I am putting off buying as I see little point if I do not understand how it works properly as it would probably lead to not being used at its optimum.
On a levelled roulette wheel if you read number 1 rotation later in time you are wrong by one ball rotation (37 pockets) plus how much rotor makes during that ball rotation.
On a tilted roulette wheel if you are wrong by one ball rotation you are wrong only by how much the rotor makes during that ball rotation.
Fair enough, I am sure you are right and I may just be making an assumption based on time spent favouring your E2 system just because it has more appeal to me at this point. Aslong I keep an open mind and listen to the words of others who know more the correct direction should be found in time.
Maybe not to theme but maybe will be interesting for somebody.
When I teach peoples how to play VB i give them many tasks , here is one:
Lets say in your Vb you use some reference time. You start cadence when ball is over 12 oclock diamond and after passing reference time you read number ( similar like when play VB2). First time lets say cadence ended 15 sec till the end of spin, bal lwas at 12 oclock and you read number 0. Second time the same cadence ended 10 sec till end, again ball was at 12 oclock and you again saw number 0. Questions :
How many rounds ball done from 15 to 10 sec til the end ?
2.Which number you will see when left to the end 12 sec ?
Bebediktus,
thanks for the insight, very interesting I can see how this tecnique could possible help me have alot more understanding of the spin and prediction with practice which cant be bad so again thank you.
At the casino yesterday and I noticed the wheel on average had very little scatter at 4 sec rotor, after an hour or so the croupier was changed and we then had a rotor speed of three seconds yet the scatter didnt increase maybe the opposite. The automatic wheel however had a constant rotor speed but very dynamic scatter pattern, hard to predict. Differance in wheels was pockets and frets which seemed to be the defining differance as the automatic wheel had a solid ring with V shaped frets and shallow pockets.
Going to make a basic variable timer today using a vibration motor from a phone as its apparent now practice should not be put of for theory.
