How to show what we can do?


#1

I read talk in RP chat between Donna_Amon and hotjohnn… The same or similar discussions possible to read in maybe all other forums. Some talks that they can beat roulette and when get ask to show that , starts problems.
Of course in 90 % or even more they simply cant beat , but even if can and want that to show - really hard to find way how to do that in internet. Of course possible to do video on own wheel cut edges - public on youtube , then predict then public complete video.

Problem that such behave takes a lot job from both sides and for that side which try to show its abilities always possible to say that this concrete wheel was not enough good and other.

From other side it is clear that if are video we can measure say ball speed and wheel speed by frames and be in situattion in which we never will be in real casino, no matter we play with RC or with VB.

I saw some translations via skype with 60fr/sec web camera, realy picture is not bad. So i think this way to show abilities is most easy way. Here we even not need 60 fr/sec . Really for that who look enough to see that all is in real time and that who try to show see all in reality …

Of course here is big advantage for predictor , because he predicts on own wheel …but other way till now i not know. If somebody will suggest something interesting will be nice…because will be good how to find way to show abilities for these who not have own wheel at home…


#2

BB, I will make videos with Forester’s FFV as soon as possible.
Sorry for my promises but I have a lot to do at the moment. My new home, my work, my injured hand etc.


#3

I think its important to “overgrow” wish to prove someone something. Only prove is in personal. I will show my performance only in personal, when my guest can see everything, or other VB can comment and add his own opinion. Only relevant proof of actual performance would be video wearing glasses with camera in casino. Actually couple of videos of playing sets at least 2-3 hours. Videos of beating own roulette at home are shit!
l


#4

Oh making videos in casino is worst. With such will be too big risk. so no matter that it of course will be informative - that is not way.

I will not say such. Say player who can beat at least such wheel which is at home - can find similar wheel in casino ( of course if his wheel not from stone age ).

Look to that very simple - I had visits several players who cant beat mine wheel at all. Of course that is like to play football game at home - big chances to mine favour. But…with some, we visited casinos and really in casinos was almoust the same or similar. So what is possible to think about player who can beat mine wheel, cant beat casino wheel and cant show wheel at his home which he can beat ?

So beating own roulette is still something and really not so small…

But main here is not in proving something to others. Main is to show for somebody , that to beat is possible at all. I think not much peoples saw other player, which really beats wheels without huge efforts.

I himself saw only one person and very short. And i want to saw him or some other more…


#5

Guys

I understand why you may want to show “others” that you can beat the wheel and how you beat the wheel but stop and consider carefully, Is it worth it?

Do you really want to pass on to the world including the Casino’s our tiny advantage just to make yourself look good?

For me it is all about trust and respect. If I trust someone when they explain their methods and strategies I don’t need proof.

I trust Forester and I respect his many years of work in this field and I don’t give a rats ass for most of those on Forums.

Mike.


#6

You all understand opposite…pity.

Ok, i will try give you example - you live in Australia and I say to you, that in next week i will come to Australia where you live and suggest you to play together ( here i will not explain why to play in team are easier , here i accept, that you that know…).
So in such situation for you is interesting who are me ? I am player winner , or absolute looser ?

Or say you go somewhere to EU - you not know nothing from casinos where you will be, but you know guy from forum who lives in city where you go. Will be interesting for you who is that guy from play side . He can be good player , he can be at least who know much about wheels and suggest you casino, wheels , but he can be such who not know nothing absolute and he can suggest something , but his suggestions will be worthless…

You see, sometimes "show " can be very informative…


#7

bebediktus

So next week you come to Australia and two people have convinced you they are winners, they have lots of proof? One is called Michael Barnett and one is called Steven Hourmouzis, they both have shown you proof of their skills? Do you still want to come and meet with them and team play with them? One will steal your secrets and sell them to the Casino’s and the other will steal your secrets and sell them to the world.

There are many better ways to find trustworthy and respectable people than sharing the small advantage that we still have.

I hope you can understand my friend

Mike.


#8

Mike,
Not need to open any secrets. If you see basketball game - you can notice which player play better which worse, but which secrets you get from them ? You can see, why one hit to basket other - no ?

I not understand why , when start to talk about VB, imidiatelly comes some secrets, which we must not open. I saw Kaisan in play and i not need explanations what he do - that is clear for me in maybe 95% or even more.
I saw chineese players in play - the same was not hard to understand what they do.

In VB or in RC not main is to detect prediction - that can do many, but only few of them can win. Not big secret that for suceseful play we need data and if two have the same data - can be that one will win , but other - will loss. Understanding this is main in VB.

You can see play of player, can notice that he play good or bad, but understanding what he do is in your head - you or understand , or - not.

I not know what you here want to say, but i will say this - say I am banned in mine local casino, so i cant play here. But now imagine situation - I know some good player - I invite him to arrive - give him data on mine wheels , he come and wins and we divide winnings 50-50. You understand that we both got something for free ?

He got data - not need to spend here several days for collecting data, not need pay for additional days in hotel and simply saved few days in his life. I got 50% of winnings… the same i can do to opposite side. I can arrive and play on his data if he have problems with play in his casinos…

That is why I need to know who is who…

Good play is not knowing some special secrets - good play is many hours of trainings - what to do in one sittuattion , what to do in other situattion, which data to collect , which on concrete wheel will be worthless.
I met many guys who play , the same from this forum, sometimes was such talk
-what you use for play ?
-VB2, but it not works
-how much time you trained to play it ?
-tested few times…
-I trained many hundreeds hours and for me works…


#9

HAHAHAHA
http://memeshappen.com/media/created/Hahahaha--meme-51845.jpg

Some best VB players play don’t clock rotor they make adjustments based on cross patterns, never explained in detail.


#10

Such i not know, but if such cross pattern user will show good results - I will try to understand such play…
In forums many what talks , but when need to show - the same song - not want to open mine secrets :slight_smile:


#11

bebediktus

OK friend now I understand you clearly and yes I agree.

I can still remember the days when it was so easy to win with those tilted hi-fret biased wheels. Now the Casino’s and wheel manufacturer’s are so much smarter soon it will only be the Lotto players at the tables.

Fortunately for me we still have Betfair and smart Bots to provide a steady income and I don’t even have to leave home!

Mike.


#12

Do you have any idea how they estimate rotor speed with out clocking rotor?
And what do you mean by adjustment using cross patterns?

Any hint or anything you have come a cross during all your years being active would be highly welcome.

Cheers


#13

Man standing on far end of the table, he can’t see much from the wheel but still can adjust for rotor and ball.
Even he speaks Croatian I couldn’t understand because expressions he used were unknown to me.
From explanation it is by amount of pockets rotor makes within rotations / rotation but also how the pattern develops.

I didn’t think much about it. I know use rotor numbers to identify rotation, but how to do both in same time.
Now when I think if i can judge rotation then i can look numbers pass and get an idea about rotor. But if I am 1 rotation earlier time of rotation is shorter , less pockets pass it looks as rotor is slower so the error enlarges. Instead of number 0 , rotation earlier I may read 9, noticing slower rotor would shift prediction towards #5 making it even worst. If it can be reversed it would be perfect solution. (As E2 system)


#14

There are no variants to make that without clocking. I will say you - ball will be after 15 sec in 9 DD position and will be just stopped in pocket. And that will be , but for you all that is worthless, if you not know rotor speed…

To clock rotor , to clock ball is easiest part of prediction, hard is what to do when we know speeds…


#16

Man standing on far end of the table, he can’t see much from the wheel but still can adjust for rotor and ball.
Even he speaks Croatian I couldn’t understand because expressions he used were unknown to me.
From explanation it is by amount of pockets rotor makes within rotations / rotation but also how the pattern develops.
I didn’t think much about it. I know use rotor numbers to identify rotation, but how to do both in same time.
Now when I think if i can judge rotation then i can look numbers pass and get an idea about rotor. But if I am 1 rotation earlier time of rotation is shorter , less pockets pass it looks as rotor is slower so the error enlarges. Instead of number 0 , rotation earlier I may read 9, noticing slower rotor would shift prediction towards #5 making it even worst. If it can be reversed it would be perfect solution. (As E2 system)

Standing at end of table and make visual prediction sound difficult - i understand some one can estimate ball speed standing at the end of table getting small view of wheel - this is good not getting to much attention starring into the wheel.

But how do some one use dominant drop zone standing at end of table - maybe he use distance and don’t care about dominant drop zone the traditional way - what would such solution look like - i think maybe making visual read and getting reference number and from that number divide wheel into example three sectors and see in wish sector ball stop most of times - bias pattern emerge using distance.
But then visual ballistic method become a hybrid between wheel signature and VB not being 100% pure.

Rotor i have no clue how to do in same time as you estimate ball.
I was thinking if you could know one lap before you estimate ball with exact speed you could use that key lap to read and clocking rotor speed - but can not see how that can be done - another way that will not work is the deceleration lap after you key the estimation process as ball will slow down each time at different rate.

I know two ways to estimate ball speed early and standing end of table.
So i also think something about angles using ball/rotor combinations to estimate similar rotor speeds.
I test this with video spins and problem is that ball will have different time when clocking rotor using ball/rotor combination

Cheers


#17

My opinion on crossover/ball rotor walking patterns:

They’re easy to see on a fast wheel. If the wheel is slow, then your edge is typically
lower because you can’t see the pattern form quickly enough to always bet.

There are two main ways to do wheel speed with crossovers.

  1. Just count the wheel speed using a fixed cadence count to determine how far the wheel travels from the zero. At the end of the count the number you observe equals your wheel speed. Each wheel speed will have a travel yardage that you’ll need to add in the form of an offset to your crossover number.

  2. Another way is to simply watch the crossover form, and then watch two or three more spins beyond the crossover number to measure how far the ball “falls away” from crossover pattern with each consecutive pass of the point. You can also use two points… halfway across from one another… to “speed up” the pattern recognition.

In my opinion crossover patterns aren’t the most effective VB method to use.

-Snowman


#18

Hi guys first of all hello to you i was lucky to found your forum and i am happy to be here :slight_smile:
I tried VB to learn it myself over weeks now and understand how it works and i am pretty happy with it so far.

the thing i dont understand is why i would somebody show what i can should it not be enough if i know it myself and let them keep talking shit :smiley:


#19

I think this thread is written in the other context…

I had some differences with a forum user.
You can read it in the first post of Bebediktus https://rouletteplace.com/t/how-to-show-what-we-can-do/1485

Of course you are right, we don’t have to show to anybody what we are able to do!
There are some users on this forum who are not able to use the RC, that’s because the are pissed off.


#20

You nothing must show, if you play and can win be silent an calm and win and win and win.
But when you will lost and lost and lost , then naturally for you will stand question - if other wins ? They can say that they win, but that is only words, we every can say such words. So you will want to see.
Naturally nobody for you will not show , because they also thinks that

So they let to you talk all shit and nobody will show at all, if possible to win . Here i not talk about explanations… :slight_smile:
And you will be happy , because all as like you wish :slight_smile:

Topic can be named " How to see what others can do…" :slight_smile:


#21

Man standing on far end of the table, he can’t see much from the wheel but still can adjust for rotor and ball.
Even he speaks Croatian I couldn’t understand because expressions he used were unknown to me.
From explanation it is by amount of pockets rotor makes within rotations / rotation but also how the pattern develops.
I didn’t think much about it. I know use rotor numbers to identify rotation, but how to do both in same time.
Now when I think if i can judge rotation then i can look numbers pass and get an idea about rotor. But if I am 1 rotation earlier time of rotation is shorter , less pockets pass it looks as rotor is slower so the error enlarges. Instead of number 0 , rotation earlier I may read 9, noticing slower rotor would shift prediction towards #5 making it even worst. If it can be reversed it would be perfect solution. (As E2 system)

Forester i have a hard time to rap my mind around this!
When you tell this story i can not see solution.

I know ball/rotor combination don’t give good prediction and i thought i test using more then one reference number clocking rotor using ball, same as wheel mapping, but with different solution, it did not work.
I measuring the pocket distance during the second and third lap from beginning of spin using ball/rotor combination, but time difference is to big, no bias pattern emerge.

Then i thought maybe only use the second lap being similar speed from spin to next spin, because such early timings, but i was wrong again, to much difference with timings.
So i use one pattern recognition clocking rotor using two reference numbers and i use one pattern recognition using one reference number and nothing give you bias patters with timings.

I am sceptical towards pattern recognition to clocking rotor speed as your friend describe parts of hes method.
At least a head count or a metronome is needed to clocking rotor speed with good results.

Been testing both Donna Amon and Bob Gordon wheels.

Cheers