Dirty wheel/biased wheel guide

As many of you will know, finding a wheel that has obvious dominant diamonds and a consistent scatter can be tricky at the best of times.

I have found in the UK that most casinos have modern wheels, so it can be difficult to find playable wheels.

Reading about a member’s experience in Xxxxx (he said some of the wheels there are old and don’t scatter at all), I wondered if we could share info. on dirty wheels and where they are? This could help us all to profit!

Cheers.

Please the pin of your bank account ?

cheers Elhombre :-*

[quote=“visualplayer, post:1, topic:884”]As many of you will know, finding a wheel that has obvious dominant diamonds and a consistent scatter can be tricky at the best of times.

I have found in the UK that most casinos have modern wheels, so it can be difficult to find playable wheels.

Reading about a member’s experience in Xxxxx (he said some of the wheels there are old and don’t scatter at all), I wondered if we could share info. on dirty wheels and where they are? This could help us all to profit!

Cheers.[/quote]

:wink: Most guys won’t share their favourite wheels because it might draw to much attention and heat to the wheel.

Cheers
Toxic

That’s unfortunate…I thought there would be people willing to work together, in the spirit of co-operation.

I do realise, though, why somebody would want to keep a wheel “all to them self”.

:-\

[quote=“visualplayer, post:1, topic:884”]As many of you will know, finding a wheel that has obvious dominant diamonds and a consistent scatter can be tricky at the best of times.

I have found in the UK that most casinos have modern wheels, so it can be difficult to find playable wheels.

Reading about a member’s experience in “Some place which will remain nameless” (he said some of the wheels there are old and don’t scatter at all), I wondered if we could share info. on dirty wheels and where they are? This could help us all to profit!

Cheers.[/quote]

I don´t know why u are reading private post from private zone. But posting it in a public zone it is not good.

Well, I won’t share info on where the playable wheels are in my area. I will do you one better! If you want to find playable wheels, meet up with me and I will show you them personally! I won’t even ask for a urine sample! That’s a great offer! BTW, I am in Canada.

As the other members have stated, posting about locations has way too much risk. You are better off trying to meet with fellow players and going from there. I have met three players from this forum and I haven’t regretted meeting them. I have gained a lot from each of them. Try networking with players first, then focus on beating wheels.

Casper, I edited the location out of your post just so it wasn’t on the public side. Just so you know who it was. :slight_smile:

In terms of the location I mentioned, it wasn’t in a private message. I read it publicly on this board about a member’s experience…story of a visit to a casino.

D Jones, I would take you up on your offer, but unfortunately Canada is a bit too far over the pond at the moment :P. Perhaps in the future!

So then, any UK players interested in exchanging info/meeting up? Post or PM me, which ever you feel more comfortable with.

I have a workable VB system…just need to find the right wheel. It would be much more interesting to talk with a like-minded person anyway :D.

Thanks everyone.

@visualplayer, even though I know beatable wheels in UK ,
I am no idiot and would tell it to others.
A friend of mine is barred there after he took there some
100,000 pounds.
Try it at the Ritz, London instead. :-*

E.H.

Try it at the Ritz? Is that a joke?

I’m sure that place in still on lockdown after the media nonsense!

I have a question about Chi square and standard deviation.
I have manually recorded spins on a wheel that seemed suspicious at a local casino, It seems according to RX that I may be correct… My only worry is that 284 spins is not enough… The dealers here are SOOO slow… and idd be lucky to record 30 spins a hour. :’(

Ive been flat betting single units on the numbers that have a standard deviation greater than +2.5 only.
I guess im up a little bit, about 10 units per hour at this rate,

Should I be more aggressive?

Kind Regards
/L

[quote=“zen101, post:52, topic:236”]Hi Kelly and co

Thanks for this post, I have a question about Chi square and standard deviation.
I have manually recorded spins on a wheel that seemed suspicious at a local casino, It seems according to RX that I may be correct… My only worry is that 284 spins is not enough… The dealers here are SOOO slow… and idd be lucky to record 30 spins a hour. :’(

Ive been flat betting single units on the numbers that have a standard deviation greater than 3 only.
I guess im up a little bit, about 10 units per hour at this rate,

Should I be more aggressive?

Kind Regards
/L[/quote]

You are correct in the assumption that 284 spins isn’t enough. I have tracked a number of wheels that looked very promising in the first few hundred spins only the have the next few hundred flatten them right out. The reality of the situation is bias wheel play is not as straight forward as you might think. It’s not hundreds of spins that you need. It’s thousands. That’s the problem. It takes an awful lot of time and energy to track a wheel, especially by yourself. The amount of spins you track also is dependent on how strong the bias is.

Think of this example, suppose you had a wheel where one pocket was drilled down a full inch deeper than all the rest of the pockets. This would mean that the ball would almost never bounce out of such a pocket. How long do you think it would take for such a bias to manifest itself? Probably not very long. After a 1000 spins you would be licking your chops. Suppose you have another wheel where the only defect is a slightly angled pocket insert or fret. It would take significantly longer to confirm that kind of bias because it is significantly weaker. Even though there are biased wheels out there (allegedly) they are so difficult to find because they are HARD to find. How many wheels could you track a few thousand spins on by yourself, only to find them as nothing more than random wheels, before you would completely lose patience and give up? For me, the answer is two. lol

I am not trying to talk you out of it. I am just trying to tell you that if you play the strong numbers early with only small data samples, the odds that the numbers are simply random fluctuations are by far more likely than the odds that they are actually biased. The larger the sample becomes, the more those odds reverse themselves.

I wish there was a simple shortcut for biased wheel play, but unfortunately the only sure formula is to track about 10K+ spins and then see what’s going on. It would amaze you how different 100 spin samples will differ from one another. It will amaze you even further how different 1000 spin samples can differ from one another.

Most people who play biased wheels have a team of people to help split up the workload.

DO NOT BE MORE AGGRESSIVE! Not until you are damn sure that the wheel is good.

Good luck!

P.S. Try not to post the same thing in different threads. It clogs up the forum. :slight_smile:

Maybe I can make a small contribution to this discussion?

In recent years I have gone from tracking tens of thousands of spins on a wheel to tens of hundreds.
I pop these into an Excel spreadsheet and look for NUMBERS WHICH FOLLOW NUMBERS!

On my favourite wheel I find things like this…
That numbers follow numbers more consistently after the first number is spun with the ball running anti-clockwise. I should mention it is a Right Handed table.
That after say an AC #36 then the ball on its CW spin will drop into the nine numbers from #18 to #16 instead of about once in every four spins or nine in every 37 spins an incredible 18 times in 37 shows of #36.
Or after an AC #10 then the ball on its next CW spin will drop into the eight numbers from 12 to 19 an incredible 19 times after 32 shows of #10 on an AC spin.
There are a few others giving me a positive result and a break from VB.

All of this on a very level new John Huxley with a stone track and a quite bouncy hard small ball.

Comments welcomed!

Mike.

Thanks very much for your comprehensive advice, I will certainly follow it, If you are correct and I spend 100 more hours (3000 spins ) on this wheel recoding it and it turns out to be normal, Then I shall surely lose my love of the game forever.

Its difficult to find partners willing to do such menial work. :frowning:
I guess potential biased wheel play is not worth the time investment for the solo player.

[Sorry about the double post {the forum software} advised me that that post wasn’t active for over 150 days and suggested I start a new one]

Thanks again
/L

You are correct in the assumption that 284 spins isn't enough. I have tracked a number of wheels that looked very promising in the first few hundred spins only the have the next few hundred flatten them right out. The reality of the situation is bias wheel play is not as straight forward as you might think. It's not hundreds of spins that you need. It's thousands. That's the problem. It takes an awful lot of time and energy to track a wheel, especially by yourself. The amount of spins you track also is dependent on how strong the bias is.

Think of this example, suppose you had a wheel where one pocket was drilled down a full inch deeper than all the rest of the pockets. This would mean that the ball would almost never bounce out of such a pocket. How long do you think it would take for such a bias to manifest itself? Probably not very long. After a 1000 spins you would be licking your chops. Suppose you have another wheel where the only defect is a slightly angled pocket insert or fret. It would take significantly longer to confirm that kind of bias because it is significantly weaker. Even though there are biased wheels out there (allegedly) they are so difficult to find because they are HARD to find. How many wheels could you track a few thousand spins on by yourself, only to find them as nothing more than random wheels, before you would completely lose patience and give up? For me, the answer is two. lol

I am not trying to talk you out of it. I am just trying to tell you that if you play the strong numbers early with only small data samples, the odds that the numbers are simply random fluctuations are by far more likely than the odds that they are actually biased. The larger the sample becomes, the more those odds reverse themselves.

I wish there was a simple shortcut for biased wheel play, but unfortunately the only sure formula is to track about 10K+ spins and then see what’s going on. It would amaze you how different 100 spin samples will differ from one another. It will amaze you even further how different 1000 spin samples can differ from one another.

Most people who play biased wheels have a team of people to help split up the workload.

DO NOT BE MORE AGGRESSIVE! Not until you are damn sure that the wheel is good.

Good luck!

P.S. Try not to post the same thing in different threads. It clogs up the forum. :slight_smile:

Yeah. Bias play as a solo player is very frustrating. Of course, if I knew the wheel was an awesome wheel, I would track thousands of spins with a smile on my face! The problem is a lot of us are in smaller places with limited access to roulette wheels. If you have at most a dozen wheels to choose from, you have to be able to find one that is good, and is good enough to yield a strong enough player’s edge to make it worth your time. This is very difficult to do when you are a new player. I have have some experience with bias and I even find it frustrating to go it alone. You may make some interesting observations that make you want to track the wheel, then you do and you find out that you were wrong.

In roulette, mistakes are often expensive. The cost is either time or money. lol

Having a partner would be ideal, but good luck trying to convince someone to spend hours and hours tracking in a casino looking for the fabled biased wheel. That is the toughest thing to sell on the planet, even if you paid them! If they have seen first hand the potential of a biased wheel, they will be a lot easier to convince.

Bias play is a daunting task for a reason. Just don’t put yourself in a position where you put all your eggs in one basket, only to be discouraged by a random wheel.

Zen,

Are you in the US?

Hi Snowman,

South Africa

[quote=“Snowman, post:15, topic:884”]Zen,

Are you in the US?[/quote]