Density of moisture and humidity - air pressure & tides - gravity & moon phase

How does the air pressure effect the game ?

. Make the ball time inconsistent

. The ball is not striking the pins properly

. Change or make the degree of tilt to drift

. Scatter becomes erratic

Witch elements do we speak of ?

. Rain

. Fog

. Hot & Cold Fronts

I read that fog and fronts affects the ball behavior witch affects chattering, strike, scatter.
Here is a chart with both warm and cold fronts witch would affect unpredictability.

This is outside behavior - does that mean i have to measuring both outside and inside pressure?
I also read that some use Air pressure and tide, even gravity using moon charts affect the game.

The question is how you chart this and collect current data to pin point out the optimal conditions contra erratic conditions.
The only solution i can think of is to note outside weather conditions and the current air pressure inside the casino during scouting for wheels and during play.
Then after time pass collect significant data and compare results witch would calibrate good and bad signs.

Here is a simple chart i find using air pressure and tide witch i like due its simplicity and clear figures …

(MB = millibar = units you measuring high/low pressure with)

As i understand it - so is density of moisture and humidity the key factors.
You more water present in the air will effect and give more erratic conditions towards the physics parameters we scout for.

Moon charts - Fact or fiction - i am not sure …
Tides are the rise and fall of sea levels caused by the combined effects of the gravitational forces exerted by the Moon and the Sun and the rotation of the Earth.

There exist charts on-line following the moon phase each day.

I read the following should be a good sign with out going to much into details.
Witch not guaranteed - but show optimal conditions with ball behavior and scatter consistency.

Full moon:
Usually the good days during a full moon period are, from the day of the full moon(after it had turned) up to 4 days later.

New moon:
Usually the good days during a new moon are from 3-4 days up to the day of the new moon.

What is your opinion about the subject …

And specially watch the Queen what she is doing, does she go outside or not,

does she wear Red or Black Underwear.
Be careful.

E.H.

Truth is the things can change. However I do not believe it has anything to do with air pressure or low and high tide. I played at any weather conditions and any days of moon fazes. There were no differences.

The difference in ball behavior is caused by something else.
I can’t remember exact details but some time ago I did some tests.

I washed the ball with soup. After some time everything start changing. To me the only explanation is oil and dirt accumulating on the ball surface makes it behave differently. Same applies if washing the ball track. Applying some kind of polish cream makes it worst, firstly the ball was spinning like crazy (could spin as 35 ball rotations) but after some time it behavior of the ball looks as it is sticky, and producing very rapid the knee point. Then I could spin max about 20+ ball rotations.
So I’ll better watch the Queen. :wink:

How does the air pressure effect the game ?

. Make the ball time inconsistent / deceleration

YES

. The ball is not striking the pins properly

NOT SURE

. Change or make the degree of tilt to drift

YES

. Ball jumps or scatter with high variance

YES

So why do i read about teams who mapping one particular casino taking/make - daily/hour - pressure charts ,
Experince bias players who claim that after 1K distance/yardage drift - with 5 mb difference ,
A well profiled wheel may reveal measurable changes due to air pressures and gravity variants.
Among other things …

Regarding to your opinion so would air pressure and tide being the same as woodo/fiction - correct ?
So is there two different schools that has different views on things - when it boils down towards if air pressure does effect the game ?
Then i woundering how come experience players like Kelly and Laurance speak of air pressure in varios way to have an impact on the game.

Also no one answer my question - does just taking current inside pressure cut it …

  • The air pressures next to the moving parts should cut it … right ? and skip outside weather and moon phase …

I belive the moon cycles affect me more than the roulette ball :smiley:

It’s only my opinion based on experience and some tests.

Casino environment is air-conditioned, sure there are changes but could it happen in one hour or it is something else.
If oil on the ball can make so much change then why to bother with change which doesn’t change rapidly and creates much smaller effect.

Does it matter for FF prediction if the dealer changes. Of course it doesn’t the system predicts regardless how hard the dealer spins the ball. The only factor that can affect the prediction cold be how oily hands he has.
Let’s say I play 4 hr and the pressure changes from 1009 hPa to 1006 hPa, that’s 0.3% change.
I doubt it will make any significant change on the ball or at least not close as oil on the ball may create, or particles of dust on the ball track, new ball, people putting weight on the table etc.

So if predicting outcome; some of previously factors may be more represented , but if looking from bias side maybe the air pressure may be more relevant.
Since when a number is biased , it is biased for oily ball, different ball, regardless how many rotations the ball spins or if it is slowing faster.

Could air pressure then be more relevant I do not know since it is not my field?
For me it looks more as an excuse then as a real reason.

Point taken and i understand the topic regarding hands/oil and so on …
As some one put it at one other board:
What if the croupier had the barbequed ribs for lunch then came back on duty without washing his hands :smiley:

Well assume that is true and i don’t swallow everything i read.

Personally i am looking for a watch.
But when i read that some watches that measuring air pressure have setting by default - then it made me think about a watch i read about where you had to put in the data your self regarding sea level and latitude and so one - i recon does observations are correct.

I find that Casio is cheap - but not sure how acc it is and if you can make your own default settings.
Recon that i have to spend 150 to 500 Euro to get a good tool/watch …

I find one very good topic about the subject do - but can not grasp it all.
It is about absolut air pressure, latitude, sea level among other parameters using a watch…

Note …
I read that distance/yardage drift during 1K sample with 5 millibars difference from one player who is into bias - witch i find be intressting data - as it would effect playing a long term wheel with X method …
Conclusion is that it would be pretty obvios to keep track of daily/hour air pressure.

On the other side - if oil on hands then ball can make so much change then why to bother with change which doesn’t change rapidly and creates much smaller effect.

I have a nice watch.

It measures air pressure.
First you adjust it then you can monitor it, it even makes a graph.
It’s a bit trickier when its showing altitude since it’s based on air pressure.
When I claim the hill I only look the difference from top and bottom readings.

It has many features as moon fazes. compass, temperature but one l like the most is automatic light lol.

This one is a bit expensive since its titanium and has many things built in but I have seen some measuring pressure under $100.

[quote=“forester, post:7, topic:803”]I have a nice watch.

It measures air pressure.
First you adjust it then you can monitor it, it even makes a graph.
It’s a bit trickier when its showing altitude since it’s based on air pressure.
When I claim the hill I only look the difference from top and bottom readings.

It has many features as moon fazes. compass, temperature but one l like the most is automatic light lol.

This one I a bit expensive since its titanium and has many things built in but I have seen some measuring pressure under $100.[/quote]

NICE :slight_smile:
What is the name of your watch - i might buy one - want to read about the watch details …
Can you connect the watch to you computer to get does charts and data - i read some watches has that function.

Many thanks …

Cheers

http://www.creationwatches.com/products/casio-protrek-58/

this site has some info and few different ones 1/2 priced.

You see graph in corner, cant connect to computer.

Instructions

ftp://ftp.casio.co.jp/pub/world_manual/wat/en/qw3246.pdf

Thanks Forester - that is great …

Quote VB Meister tor 19 apr 2012

Some people dismiss factors like altitude, barometric pressure etc.
Although I believe the moon also has an effect look at spring tide during full moon.
High and low pressure systems rotate ccw in the Southern Hemisphere and cw in the Nothern hemisphere.
Look at water draining from your bath.
Same thing.
Does that have an effect on cw and ccw spins?

I chart barometric pressures when I track and when I play.
Just by doing that, you could be close to 10% better with predictions instead of using static info.

Think of barometric pressure this way.
It is about the resistance in the air.
Same as with altitude.
If you play at sea level, the air density is high.
This causes the ball to travel less distance than at altitude.
Watch a cricket game.
Playing at altitude the ball travels quite a bit further than at sea level.

The above is true for deflector hits but also for scatter.
Especially playing a low fret or scalloped wheel where the ball almost always scatters forward and the forward momentum determines the distance traveled.

Interesting about barometric pressure in casinos and outside casinos.
Seldom I would think there is much difference.
I only take barometric pressure on the day in the casino.
Not outside.
It makes perfect sense though that the pressure shouls be equal inside and outside.
When I get up in the morning and the air is heavey with moisture, I lick my lips.
There is no doubt the heavier the air the better conditions. :o

When I get up in the morning and the air is heavy with moisture, I lick my lips.

That’s wrong, :stuck_out_tongue: the air with more humidity is lighter, for same reason clouds are above our heads.

High pressure I can argue it with good experiences playing on rainy days.
On rainy days the pressure drops, the air is lighter therefore and the ball should easier drop due to gravity forces. If the ball travels a bit longer it’s irrelevant and there is no reason to hit diamonds differently.
On the other side perhaps on sunny day the ball might travel a bit shorter (if it does) when is bouncing may get more air resistance so it could bounce less.

People like to write things as that, it may look more professional; when someone buys it it may look interesting, entertaining and time consuming. Even we discuss it few times since this site exists I am still not convinced.

I somehow like MasterRoulette, as I mentioned few times before. He corrected some mistakes form Jafcos explanation and provided to the player explanation about the knee point and valuable method how to identify it to have the prediction in the best moment during the spin which gives to the player the highest chance.
However his explanation for visually playing leveled roulette wheel is a disaster.

Putting it all together I can only conclude some people like to write some things for the sake of writing.

People like to write things as that, it may look more professional; when someone buys it it may look interesting, entertaining and time consuming. Even we discuss it few times since this site exists I am still not convinced.

I understand your point of view and where is Kelly and Snowman when you need them.
With there experience it would be nice to hear what they had to say about the subject.

I know it is true - because i have recive material and prof about the subject witch i can not speak about in public or share.

Putting it all together I can only conclude some people like to write some things for the sake of writing.

Well no matter witch direction i turn my head, so do i read about experience players who say the same thing with different words.
Air pressure have impact on the game.

This is sadge comment about Kellys topic about how air pressure can make the degree of tilt to drift.

barometric pressure matters when you are a VB or biased wheels player. It is hard to divide days and act as you have tested. I´ve been messuring BP for years and added some % to my edge but it is nt the main subject.
  1. jun. 2011 15.33
Why most phisic scientists underestimete BP saying that the weight and volume of a ball cannot be affected in a meassurable way?

Stubborn :smiley:

Air pressure does not much else than changing the drop zone and in that situation, sometimes also messes a little bit with the scatter. The pic you have on top of the thread is from an excel i had with 2 different air pressures. Air pressure is also not changed by airconditioning.

The temperature and humidity maybe but not the air pressure. The reason i follow it is because of the slow spin modes we sometimes have in europe and air pressure can change a lot during a long session. At least it is a warning sign that when things start to go wrong and at the same time the air pressure has changed, its time to adjust or re track because there could be a very physicly reason that the drop has changed so why follow a unprecise tracking.

Suppose you are playing a tilted wheel by yourself. You have a choice of two changes. The first being a change in the barometric pressure, temp, and humidity. The second being the table being crowded by 10 other guys all trying to get their bets in. Which of the two will affect your conditions the most significantly?

I think BP is important, but I also think that other variables are much more important and are often overlooked. Still, BP is something that should be looked at when everything else has been checked out and yielded no explanation.

Well some does and some does not deal with some hours of tracking and playing …
I notice how distance/yardage drift and will start to chart BP …

I find this average reply from Kelly describe it very well - May 23 - 2009 …

On todays semi tilted wheels, the biggest impact on the fall off point is the air pressure. So if you are tracking and playing over several days, you need to have air pressure value embedded in the tracking. Once you get to a point where you are a technical good player, you might still be screwed by the air pressure. If there is a huge tilt or the drop zone remaines static, you might to some extend forget about air pressure, because then it will only marginally influence the prediction pattern. Only to some extend because if the air pressure alters as little as 3 millibars, the ball will drop sooner and with a greater speed and will also marginally affect the scatter because of the greater speed impact. In reality it means you need to adjust your observation point for a given rotor speed with X amount of pockets.

Some people will call air pressure tracking along with the normal tracking for unnessecary or just for “nerds”, but it really has an impact and shouldnt be neglected. If the intention is to to track a few hours, then play a few hours and then leave and not coming back, all you need to do is make sure that the air pressure doesnt change significantly while you are playing compared to when you were tracking.

May 24 - 2009 Kelly …

In the past there were some big arguments between laurance and Mark Howe on the subject air pressure. What caused the greatest differences was temperature in the casino. MH stated that the casino with the air condition could influence the air pressure with the temperature and laurance said they couldn`t. Its a bit complicated because air pressure and temperature HAS something to do with each other, for example
" People who know about thermal lows and high pressure in cold air often jump to the conclusion that warm air means low pressure and cold air means high. Unfortunately, the atmosphere is more complicated than this.

For instance, the low-pressure center of a tropical cyclones are warmer than the surrounding air. But, the core of an extratropical cyclone, where the low pressure is located, is colder than the surrounding air"

Basicly if the temperature dropped outside, the air pressure would be likely to be higher. But this wouldn’t be directly because the temperature changed, but because an area of high air pressure moved in, bringing the cooler temperatures.

But if the casino suddenly drops the temperature using the air condition, it doesn`t mean that they are changing the weather by bringing in a high air pressure that normally goes with the cooler temperatures


Also find some more specific details about the subject from Toby who is known bias player collecting hudge amount of data.
He mention some very good details about how he experience BP effect the game - maybe i write about that later.

If you are that worried about the air pressure difference, there is a simple test. Open the doors to the casino. Most here have two sets of doors. Keep both open. If you get knocked on your ass by a gust of wind then there is a big pressure difference. But it seems so over the top for a casino to go through those kinds of measures. It’s much simpler to, rotate the wheel, level the wheel, change a ball, move a wheel, etc. The air pressure inside and outside should be pretty much the same. I have never experienced my ears popping upon entering or exiting a casino. I have experienced it in a small area like inside a car while driving on the highway and then cracking a window after a couple hours of driving.

I’m telling you, a bunch of drunks crowding the table will have a greater impact on your playing conditions than the air pressure. The biggest issue is the amount of spins per hour drops significantly. That doesn’t even include all the table leaning going on.

Davey i agree that a lot of more down to earth things can influence the game, creamy dealer hands for example. Its not a big problem where i play though, and after all, you don`t know when someone has used cream or not, where the air pressure is measurable straight away. In a normal 3 - 4 hour session its not normally a big problem but if you play 5 - 6 days at the same casino in a row and use the data you collect to feed Scotts analyse tool, you are able to seperate different air pressures and build a larger data base and and get much more accurate trackings. You can after a few days, up front, prepare a proper reading point for each pressure. It may only be a few pockets of moving, still, we wants to get the best of the best dont we.

I am sure that i will find 5 mb change during day/evning sometimes - not so strange … recording Toby …
And sure there are other parameters that change the game - nothing new.

if you play 5 - 6 days at the same casino in a row and use the data you collect to feed Scotts analyse tool, you are able to seperate different air pressures and build a larger data base and and get much more accurate trackings.

Same if you deal with long term wheel.

As Kelly says, in our game everything that can add any extra advantage minds.

It sounds weird but I donnot leave anything to luck.

The only luck element is the time it takes me to accomplish the goal.

The moisture in the air - degree of water in the air - humidity …

How do you measuring “relative humidity” what is the unit/sign ? is it just % ?
As for Air pressure its mb= millibars …

Would we state - There is no doubt the heavier the air the better conditions.

Straight Facts About Humidity

Humidity is the amount of moisture or water vapour in the air. You, your family, and your pets produce moisture when you breathe or perspire. Even your indoor plants produce moisture. We add water vapour to indoor air through routine household activities: cooking, showering, bathing, doing laundry, and dishwashing. More moisture can enter your home from the surrounding soil through a basement or crawl space.

Relative Humidity

Humidity is normally measured as relative humidity (RH). RH is a percentage that indicates the amount of moisture in the air relative to the maximum amount the air can hold at that temperature. For instance, when air at a given temperature contains all the water vapour it can hold at that temperature, it has a RH of 100 per cent. If the humidity exceeds 100 per cent, moisture will begin to condense from the air. If the air contains only half the water it can hold at that temperature, the RH is 50 per cent.

Warm air can hold more moisture than cool air, so that the RH of a sample of air will change as the temperature changes, even though the actual amount of moisture in the sample air does not. For example, as a sample of air cools the RH rises.

Using Your Hygrometer

Your hygrometer will show the relative humidity (RH) in your house. Although the RH will not be exactly the same throughout your home, one hygrometer per house is usually sufficient. You should place it where the humidity symptoms are most obvious, in the room that you are most concerned about, or where your family spends the most time. Because hygrometers are small, they can be moved around in your house from time to time.

Don’t place your hygrometer near a radiator, a heat register or a chimney, or in any other location where it could be affected by direct heat.

Remember that a hygrometer does not produce instant results. It may take up to two hours to provide a stable reading in a new location or to adjust to sudden changes in relative humidity.

Why not use both - Casio Trek watch and Hygrometer - sound pretty cool
Search for a casio with Air pressure and Hygrometer … but there is some other alternatives …