# Dealer signature, light VB or what?

Hello everyone, I have this question. I have been watching the wheels on the local casino. And im actually able to predict a small area of the wheels, where the ball will land. How i do it is another story… I just look where on the wheel the ball is thrown and which number is under the ball when it leaves dealers hand. Then after one full rotor rev, I look where the ball is, and give a discount, depending on the wheel speed and ball speed.

For example, the dealer throws the ball on 0 and it is at exactly 12 o’clock. So i wait for one full rotor rev, and when 0 is reaching the same spot again, i look immediatly where the ball is and add the propper discount, depending on the relation of rotor and ball speed.

I dont clock anything, i just measure everything with eyesight… Is this DS, light VB, bias (on every wheel?) or neither? lol thanks.

Welcome Ugha

It sounds strange I know but I have this theory that if you watch the wheel long enough and do what you are doing or some variations of it your brain actually programs itself to recognise the finishing number after you input a couple of details like that early in the spin.

Don’t ask me how it works but it can do it sufficiently accurately to overcome the house edge.

Mike.

Something here doesn’t sound right.
Lets say rotor is 4 sec per rotation after one rotation the ball is at same position where dealer released it.
If next spin the rotor is 4.2 sec it is slower and lets say the ball is same. So in 4.2 sec the ball may make a bit more (as 12 pockets)which is reversed form what you want. Instead of reading 12 pockets in front you should read less.
That all would be ok if you reverse what you see, for example the ball makes 12 pockets more you deduct 12 pockets since the rotor is slower.

But there is the problem since you don’t know if rotor or the ball is faster.
Another case may be rotor is 4 sec but now the ball is faster.
You may again see it as additional 12 pockets the ball made , it is good but if you were reversing as it is needed for rotor change it is bad.

For that reason ball traveling distance cannot be observed using rotor as a reference or vice versa.
"How i do it is another story… " No matter how you do it.

You can observe both only if you use a timer. On such principles E2 and VB2 systems are made.

Now if you observe what rotor made in lets say 4 sec.
If rotor is faster you see it and it goes in direction where the ball will travel longer same applies to the ball.

Good luck!

[quote=“Ugha, post:1, topic:1015”]Hello everyone, I have this question. I have been watching the wheels on the local casino. And im actually able to predict a small area of the wheels, where the ball will land. How i do it is another story… I just look where on the wheel the ball is thrown and which number is under the ball when it leaves dealers hand. Then after one full rotor rev, I look where the ball is, and give a discount, depending on the wheel speed and ball speed.

For example, the dealer throws the ball on 0 and it is at exactly 12 o’clock. So i wait for one full rotor rev, and when 0 is reaching the same spot again, i look immediatly where the ball is and add the propper discount, depending on the relation of rotor and ball speed.

I dont clock anything, i just measure everything with eyesight… Is this DS, light VB, bias (on every wheel?) or neither? lol thanks.[/quote]If you can do it, perfect!!! MAKE MONEY TIME!!! But first, run simulation on paper. Do it, say 50 times, and if you are in winn after that, start to call bets!

[quote=“mikemcbain, post:2, topic:1015”]Welcome Ugha

It sounds strange I know but I have this theory that if you watch the wheel long enough and do what you are doing or some variations of it your brain actually programs itself to recognise the finishing number after you input a couple of details like that early in the spin.

Don’t ask me how it works but it can do it sufficiently accurately to overcome the house edge.

Mike.[/quote]

Thank you Mike,

I don’t know if your theory is right, but at least its an explanation for what i’ve been doing lol at the momment if i pick for example half wheel, i’d be hitting 63/65% of the time if i played every spin, some of them is just a hard guess, or the ball misses the diamonds or when it hits the rotor jumps back, anyway… Not every spin has the right condition to play, but i’ve already simulated on papper if i was playing… 980ish spins for 110k profit.

Something here doesn’t sound right.
Lets say rotor is 4 sec per rotation after one rotation the ball is at same position where dealer released it.
If next spin the rotor is 4.2 sec it is slower and lets say the ball is same. So in 4.2 sec the ball may make a bit more (as 12 pockets)which is reversed form what you want. Instead of reading 12 pockets in front you should read less.
That all would be ok if you reverse what you see, for example the ball makes 12 pockets more you deduct 12 pockets since the rotor is slower.

But there is the problem since you don’t know if rotor or the ball is faster.
Another case may be rotor is 4 sec but now the ball is faster.
You may again see it as additional 12 pockets the ball made , it is good but if you were reversing as it is needed for rotor change it is bad.

For that reason ball traveling distance cannot be observed using rotor as a reference or vice versa.
"How i do it is another story… " No matter how you do it.

You can observe both only if you use a timer. On such principles E2 and VB2 systems are made.

Now if you observe what rotor made in lets say 4 sec.
If rotor is faster you see it and it goes in direction where the ball will travel longer same applies to the ball.

Good luck![/quote]

Hey forester,

On those wheels i play, there is also a curious thing, if the dealer throws the ball and rotor at an insane speed, the ball will ALWAYS land near the same number it was thrown form. The opposite thing happens if they spin the rotor slow and the ball slow, it will probably land on the opposite side of the wheel, from where the ball was thrown, BUT if they spin the rotor slow and the ball fast, its still a bit hard to tell where it will land, as some spin i dont consider them playable.

As for your example, if after one full rotor rev, the ball crosses the same number again, depending on the speed, it will most likely land on the opposite side of the wheel, but if the rotor is fast enough, it will land on aproximatly 260 degree angle from where it was thrown. It is hard to explain, but i guarantee im not telling you BS.

Appart from the topic, congrats on this amazing forum man! Been learning the VB basics for free, probably ill subscribe later, when i get a better understanding of the basics.

[quote=“sergiy, post:4, topic:1015”][quote=“Ugha, post:1, topic:1015”]Hello everyone, I have this question. I have been watching the wheels on the local casino. And im actually able to predict a small area of the wheels, where the ball will land. How i do it is another story… I just look where on the wheel the ball is thrown and which number is under the ball when it leaves dealers hand. Then after one full rotor rev, I look where the ball is, and give a discount, depending on the wheel speed and ball speed.

For example, the dealer throws the ball on 0 and it is at exactly 12 o’clock. So i wait for one full rotor rev, and when 0 is reaching the same spot again, i look immediatly where the ball is and add the propper discount, depending on the relation of rotor and ball speed.

I dont clock anything, i just measure everything with eyesight… Is this DS, light VB, bias (on every wheel?) or neither? lol thanks.[/quote]If you can do it, perfect!!! MAKE MONEY TIME!!! But first, run simulation on paper. Do it, say 50 times, and if you are in winn after that, start to call bets![/quote]

Ive already tested it on papper, 900 and something times, but using a 18 pocket arc, im able to tell up to 8 pockets aprox. the result was 110k profit… too bad i wasnt playing lol

I know wheel signature is as effective as visual ballistic VB , same thing , but i don’t write about it in public …

I can let you in to my testing group and you have to report back with data …
I give you the information how to beat the wheel and you give me all collected data.

Give and take situation …

What you missing is rotor speed variations that make the the ball end up in different places.
You don’t clocking the ball the correct way.
And you don’t have a clue about a semi tilted wheel and how to take advantage out of it.

It takes more then just release number.

Cheers

Lucky , here we cant to discover America or to invent bycicle. From begining of spin till end are two meanings in way - ball way plus wheel way and we must know bouth at least in some acuracy to be able to fight. The same when we start somewhere in the middle of spin. Of course we can use wheel signature and see how changed distance between some points maybe between realysed maybe between other and try to find here advantage, but this way is not only and maybe, far not best way.
If to talk about such ways of prediction where we not measure in play any time such as DS or WS there are such ways how to read number in particular place after some amount of ball rounds and theese places and number of rounds can be diferent and still we can put all data together. Are such ways. How good they are ? Every method have his advantages and disadvantages.
If we play VB we must measure wheel and ball and that is slightly to say not so easy and not everybody can do that in right level. But who can - acuracy can be better. But we must use timer or RC what is not super comfortable.
When we use some method in which we not need to count any time but only we count in some manier ball rounds or wheel rounds or its parts only - we can fell himself more free and that sometimes can give us such benefit that we can show even better results than with counting time. At least for me such happend and not one time. But for such play we must do very big preparattional job - measure ball rounds and analyse them what will be if ball will do from that point N and what will be if ball will do from this point N+1 or any other number of rounds. We all that must have in mind and that is also not so easy.
So say that one method is beter than other is very risky - always can be such player which can play better with very simply method and beat much more complex methods with diferent timings.

Why argue about methods? If the only thing that is important is resoult of its implementation. …Money wonn is more important then advantage or method used!!! Guy says 100k on simulation. somebody who could make this money deserves respect, even if he would use ds :D. Ugha, if you can, DO IT!!! Go there and hitt them hard!!! I dont belive in your method, unless you dont say everything, but if it works… 65% right permits to run progressions. Start with the small units and dig your way up, everytime you reach new level-put more coins on the action… remember to play with their money, not yours. KILL KILL KILL

Im not sure if you’re being ironic or not lol but im not trying to bullshit anyone here. All im doing is asking if anyone is aware of this thing.
And i have already said everything lol it’s all about wheel/ball speed relation. Of course sometimes i miss, by 1 to 5 pockets and some other times the ball lands on the exact opposite side i was predicting, still gotta figure out why, but already have some clues, just got to check a couple on slow motion, which is a bit hard also can’t run progressions, already had really bad experiences with progressions, when i was looking for the HG system lol who didnt at some point? my data collected was all done in the casino, and took me about a month going there about 3 times a week for 2 hours each time, aprox… And it was a good result after all But like i said, im not BS anyone, just asking if people are aware and could explain what this is… hard luck maybe, but over 900ish spins flatbetting…
Also, im not saying this “method” is the best, as im really interested in VB and trying to learn it, just to make another statistic we’ll see how it goes eheh

My idea is that you are doing is quite possible, the way you describe it… some things are missing. Pay attention to dd hitt, as moust of systems of vb or ds are requireing dd hitt. Make analisys of some spins vith avidemux soft, like… what gonna happend if other diamond is hit, or ball gonna go one rev extra. Analise these situations, and apply them to your play. Pay extra attention to rotor speeds, in fact note exact rotor speeds and see wich ones produse resoults that are favorable to you. Im not sinical about what you say, just want you to understand it fully . Me and others have seen some things on wheels that are interesting, some of these things are even able to work in real conditions, some are just pure luck… When you are able to describe what you doing as fool vorking model, that could be applyed, lll be super curios to hear about it, and even share some of my observations, to see if it can be improoved… or who knows, lern from you, if your model of play is more aplicable. Subscribe to the forum, there is lots of info for you to start with… but dont forget your method of play, just as l sayed… fully analise it!!! See you around and wellcome ;D
Sergiy.

I figured out that early this morning, and end up here.

I have the idea in the head, I dont know if you will understand so, help me if you want.

Compare previous spins to see why the things happens

We have 4 factors to take care:

Previous winning number 32
Insertion point (croupier) X
Ball speed (rev x sec. or total revolutions)
Rotor speed (rev x sec. or total revolutions)

The things happens for a reason (the 80% of the time). Sometimes the ball hit the diamond, jump, go back fo further, but that´s the 20% of the time. Is it possible to find a relation for diferents kinds of situations? + ball speed - rotor speed, + ball speed + rotor, etc…

I know is out there.

Three last factors you mention, are relevant. However to play ds, you have to summ up possible error on all factors and make sure its manageble (less 18poket). Normally its applyed when scatter is manageble and 1 diamond is dominant. 2-3 pin ds is more complicated. Keep looking at this website. It has some cool answers to your qwestions. Situations like -+ speeds you have to calculate for every situation separately, there are not definitive solutions, but you can make some shortcuts using common logic and bacik math. All of this is in the forum. Subscribe. …and see :). In fact l would reccomend to read all the forum, careful, its addictive.

[quote=“Ad-hoc, post:11, topic:1015”]I figured out that early this morning, and end up here.

I have the idea in the head, I dont know if you will understand so, help me if you want.

Compare previous spins to see why the things happens

We have 4 factors to take care:

Previous winning number 32
Insertion point (croupier) X
Ball speed (rev x sec. or total revolutions)
Rotor speed (rev x sec. or total revolutions)

The things happens for a reason (the 80% of the time). Sometimes the ball hit the diamond, jump, go back fo further, but that´s the 20% of the time. Is it possible to find a relation for diferents kinds of situations? + ball speed - rotor speed, + ball speed + rotor, etc…

I know is out there.[/quote]

One thing I have noticed is, sometimes when the ball hits the rotor, goes back instead of going forward, and that makes me miss my prediction sometimes. I believe so, that’s what I have been doing, find a relation between the ball and the rotor speeds, to make the prediction, always got to pay attention to the ball type (small or large), it’s a completly different scenario from one to the other (nothing new ).

As far as the dealer… It doesn’t really matter In some cases, at least for me, because you just have to… know… the speed of the ball and the wheel on that one spin… Hard to explain I also don’t track the diamonds, as I already tried this on a level wheel (at least that was what the guy from the video on dailymotion says), and I can do the exact same thing with the rotor/ball speed…