# Croupier Effect on Ball Spins

This is something we have commented very little about on this forum and it was recently raised on Laurance’s Forum with no response. I will copy the post in full to here for your responses…Mike.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "rules", but these are my general observations regarding spins:

Each dealer has a “natural” way of spinning the ball. If you take data, or study a dealer it is important to know how the wheel reacts when they are dealing their natural way.

When they devaiate from their natural method, the wheel will act differently. The ball may bounce differently, or the ball could drop from the track differently.

There are two predominant types of spins: 1) A “push” spin where the dealer pushes the ball as they spin it, and 2) a “snap” spin where the dealer snaps the ball as if they were snapping their fingers. More experienced dealers tend to use the snap spin.

Sometimes a very experienced dealer will know how to put a great deal of backspin on the ball. You can generally spot this, as they will either shift from a push to a snap spin, or the ball will decelerate quicly just after they snap it.

Very short spins (“wimpy” spins) can be a problem as well. The ball just doesn’t behave the same way.

Very long spins can be a problem also. The theory is that the ball heats up with friction on a very long spin and this affects the behavour just before the drop.

There are no hard and fast “rules” that you can apply to any type of spin except these:

1. Always try to play a dealer’s ‘natural’ spin
2. Stay away from wimpy and/or very long spins (unless the very long spin is the dealer’s natural spin)
3. Stay away from a dealer that will occasionally put a lot of backspin on the ball.

Hello Mike there was some discussion earlier.
http://rouletteplace.com/index.php/topic,63.msg1316.html#msg1316

(LOL in 2006 when we started, and when you were young man ;))
I took spins and isolated all spins which ff predicted with significant error in prediction where the ball will drop or start dropping. (Not many)

Considering FF as accurate tool for measurements, I blamed spins for imperfection.
So I took data from FF and compared with timings from video. Data showed me that FF did predict according to ball speed. All badly predicted spins were short (12s)So it means the ball with them could have back spinning. There was only one long spin and I couldn’t explain why the ball was behaving differently.

So for back spinning I would say yes. It may take few rotations for ball to stabilize.

I wouldn’t say the ball will bounce differently, if back spinning can last so long none of predictions would be good because ball would be spinning in all directions. Impact with rotor even if ball deliberately have added spin wouldn’t matter much since it will be contact in between two smooth objects. And the ball can’t have back spin on the end of spin, if it does when ball slows down occasionally it would jump out from the track if it comes to some dints.

Sometimes a very experienced dealer will know how to put a great deal of backspin on the ball. You can generally spot this, as they will either shift from a push to a snap spin, or the ball will decelerate quicly just after they snap it.

Well if this is truth
“So for back spinning I would say yes. It may take 5-6 rotations for ball to stabilize”
And if you playing much later in time form start of the spin then there is no reason for dealer to do it. "

Very short spins (“wimpy” spins) can be a problem as well. The ball just doesn’t behave the same way.

Backspinning

Very long spins can be a problem also. The theory is that the ball heats up with friction on a very long spin and this affects the behavior just before the drop.

I couldn’t find difference in very long and medium spins.
I was testing it from same perspective. But …but… but…who knows

p.s.
Hey Mike!

It was good to read old post to refresh memory.
You were going to 5,500 km trip o play particular wheel.
Can you remember results …

Of course I remember results Forester! I’m old but not that old yet! ;D

Minerox and Co had clocked about 13,000 spins on a biased wheel and after we made a small profit the wheel turned cold sour and we dived into the biggest loss in our records. Stopped just before the bottom and didn’t restart until back above our loss point all a bit disillusioned and weary.

Ended up playing this wheel and another heavily tilted wheel using VB and came out losing a bit but much wiser.

Incidentally over the next week the early biased number ran hot again and continued to show hot when intermittently clocked over the next several months.

When by search, I come across that post I couldn’t know that it was that trip.
I remember in usual you were describing mostly positive trips

Unreal how fast time is running it was 2006, for me it seams as it was a year ago.

Anyway, stick to FF and, so history doesn’t repeat itself.

FF and VB so we have a backup play when conditions are not perfect for one or the other and make sure our Casino visits are only for social occasions when conditions are not right for either FF or VB.