yes but this thing at my mouth is NOT for NOT to speak…but for NOT to BITE hard!!! HAHAHHAHAHAHHA ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
This is a 1 post only, we are not getting any further anyway.
[b]
Vibe Jefcos roulette system It is as a guide for idiots. Well prepared as a document and explained but it is more as for retarded person entertaining himself?
Well, you might be right since jefco’s roulette system I wouldn’t define as a system at all.
It is only explanation of tilted wheel effect[/b]
You kept going on about the dominant diamond, which is not the topic when discussing a 2 or 3 pin game where you don`t know which diamond is the dominant.
I claim that he plays it same as one pin game and that he even teaches wrong to select always first diamond when diamond with the most hits needs to be selected.
It means or me or him lacks understanding.
It means that you don`t understand there so far is NOT a dominant diamond.
No matter how positive I want to be I still couldn’t figure out what Jafco system really is.
If people could just estimate ball speed there would never exist visual prediction methods, or even roulette computers.
When i searched in the jafco thread i came up with over 5 points where you deliberately either misinterprets or simply refuses to understand his system. His system is basicly not much different than how many VB players plays. They identify a particular ball revoloution, what you call estimates. Peace with that, but in the same breath you say your VB systems predicts not estimates which is straight up wrong. I would say there is more estimation in your systems than in traditional VB.
If you wanna keep posters you shouldn`t go on a personal rampage on a ghetto level at least not wit me bacause i got better things to do. No matter how well i should manage to cut jafcos out in a card board for you, you would refuse to give it any credit whatso ever. You had taken your stance even before you read the first line of his system.
Steve Fortes chart that bruce posted, is the basic essentials for the last 4 revoloutions for traditional VB and you call that “donkey”. By doing that you classify 99% of all VB players as donkeys. As if you had something better. Why aren`t then just 1% playing classic “estimation” VB and 99% “prediction forester” ?
I like discussing roulette with people that knows the stuff and knows how to discuss without getting personal, and thats not your field. If i have to start every post by reposting my view because you twist things, it gets very tiresome.
We are never gonna have a productive conversation on Roulette, THATS why i dont post here any more, NOT because you bash Jafco, because there really arent any you can accept as being able to play a proper game. When you go into “black box” mode you post some really bad english nonsense and back it up with some numbers that dont make any sense when we dont know exactly what you talk about. So we end up all being amateurs and idiots in your mind.
Kelly it so SO NICE to see u posting here again! 
U are a well respected VB player…U are mostly WELCOME! there are NOT many VB players left in the world and it is a shame NOT to have U here.
I agree with some things that U say about ur diferences with forester about Jafco s system…
I have said a lot of times that Jafco s VB is the most easy and good VB! I like it more ,because it is very accurate in rotor speed changes.But of course we need to make new observation points in some wheels ,becasue the reamaining time is Not in all wheels the same as his VB cards.
The problem with Forester is that he has never tried a lot to find the correct revolution of the ball and thats why he doesn t agree with the advantage of the 2 pin game…
I don t blame him because he is right for a very importand reason!!!
It is really VERY hard ,close to imposible for anyone to be able to spot the 4 or the 3,25 rev the MOST OF THE TIMES in a real professional wheel that we find in a Casino these days…althought in Jafco s wheel I am preety able to spot these 2 speeds of the ball in almost all the spins. ;D
So Forester is NOT wrong if u will see it from his point of view…That it is the correct view in practical
And he just say that the 2 pin game is something that we do NOT aim ,but something that just happens.He is not completely wrong when we look at the modern Casino wheels where the decleration of the ball is Very smooth and it is NOT able to spot the most of the times the correct 4 or 3,25 revs.
Maby U have missed the point that Forester try to explain U… Forester REALLY know how in theory the 2 pin game gives the advantage that jafco s say…
But he tells that it is NOT practical to do IT!!! And once again I agree with him… 
In theory if U will replay the spin and U will find the 3.25 rev U will see that the ball is again in a very advantage position…But can u spot the diference between the 4th and the 3,25 rev of the ball IN A MODERN CASINO WHEEL in order to be able to aim at the dimont that will give u the adbantage…???THIS is what poor and correct Forester is trying to explain U all these years! 
As for his VB2 …U are whrong when u say that it needs more estimation than the traditional VB…
I have read all the thread where he was trying to explain to U what VB 2 is about… and from ur questions and answers ,IT IS OBVIOUS that U haven t understand what VB 2 is!!!And how we predict with it …and why it gives US the advantage to be close to the correct prediction even if we float by 2-3-4 revs…
Once again it is an honor to have here
It would be nice to stick here with US!!!
when i didn t knew anything about VB U were so nice and U were axplaining anything that U could.
It would be also nice Forester and I ,to try to explain to U VB2…
ps.There is NO need to attack Forester.He really knows what he is talking about!
his only problem is that he can t explain the things sometimes because his 1st language is NOT Enlish…and he is a little staborn sometimes…Hehe!!!
Vibe Jefcos roulette system It is as a guide for idiots. Well prepared as a document and explained but it is more as for retarded person entertaining himself?
Kelly did you ever see books series called such as; windows for idiots, UNIX for idiots, java for idiots, sex for idiots…
It is a series of books not necessary made for idiots but with detailed and simple explanations. When I said that followed by “Well prepared as a document and explained” retarded person entertaining himself. It gets full meaning of it.
For Viper who started from zero it is good, for me I couldn’t see anything new as the system was presented by Jafco or by your explanations. Infect I found it misleading.
You are the one who promoted it with words as …with Jafco’s system you can play 2 or 3 pin game. I am trying to explain to you and to anybody else that 2 or 3 pin play has nothing to do with Jafco system since he doesn’t have a single thing in his system to trigger it.
He is only explaining what will happen if the ball hits other diamond and if rotor is slow. He even explains it poorly, he points and makes videos only when ball makes 3.25 rotations instead of 4. he doesn’t explain that the ball can make 4.25 which is much closer to 4 and that result will be wrong. He believes you have to use first of 2 pins, and it is not truth. That is what I was explaining. If it is wrong then it is wrong, obviously he couldn’t see whole picture of 2 pin game. If you can prove to me that it is not wrong I will accept it. That’s all I am asking from you before then you claim I just discredit Jafco’s stem without reason.
You said he is first one to explain it, I showed you video where it was explained earlier, but you claimed that you couldn’t understand. It’s not important, who explained it first or how explains it more understandable.
Point is that if it was explained on video where completely different system is used it means that 2 pin game applies to every VB system and it has nothing to do with Jafco’s approach. If it applies to any VB; it is not Jafco’s system that creates it but obviously it is an effect on tilted wheel when the rotor is at particular speed range. I asked you or anyone else to point singe thing from Jafco’s system how he exactly plays 2 pin and you couldn’t. Take any other VB approach and it would be same.
2 pin game has nothing to do with him estimating 4th rev, or using always first pin.
Who wanted to understand he will, I explained that if you use first or second pin you still have a 2 pin game and you have had problem understanding it. If you think I am wrong then lets go step by step and I will explain in detail every single sentence I wrote.
***Well, you might be right since jefco's roulette system I wouldn't define as a system at all. It is only explanation of tilted wheel effectYou kept going on about the dominant diamond, which is not the topic when discussing a 2 or 3 pin game where you don`t know which diamond is the dominant.***
Point is that Jafco claims in his document; from 2 diamonds you have to use always the first one to play 2 pin game. It is not the truth. You can use second one and achieve same. If you do not understand my previous explanation then ask I will explain it again. If second diamond has more hits then first I suggest to people to use it instead of first and I explained by how much advantage will increase.
***I claim that he plays it same as one pin game and that he even teaches wrong to select always first diamond when diamond with the most hits needs to be selected. It means or me or him lacks understanding.It means that you don’t understand there so far is NOT a dominant diamond.**
Kelly of 2 diamonds (2 pins) not always they get same hits. More often is that one gets more. If it happens that second one getting more hits, with jafco suggestion to still use first one the player is worst of.
***No matter how positive I want to be I still couldn't figure out what Jafco system really is. If people could just estimate ball speed there would never exist visual prediction methods, or even roulette computers.When i searched in the jafco thread i came up with over 5 points where you deliberately either misinterprets or simply refuses to understand his system. His system is basicly not much different than how many VB players plays. They identify a particular ball revoloution, what you call estimates. Peace with that, but in the same breath you say your VB systems predicts not estimates which is straight up wrong. I would say there is more estimation in your systems than in traditional VB.***
“His system is basicly not much different than how many VB players plays.”
Well yes you are right, his system is nothing more then that. If so, it is represented wrongly. Jafco represents it as unique 4th dimension of roulette play. You were representing it as system that can play 2 or 3 pins. So when I got the system and found out that it is only estimate when ball is about 4 rotations before drop than adjust how much rotor will move in remaining 4 rotations, of course I got disappointed. It’s basic of basics.
Kelly, with VB2 what Jafco has to estimates within one rev of accuracy I can comfortably do within 5. Sure and VB2 has its own problems and with difference to anyone else I also write about it, because I believe it is important to understand not only what system can do but also what it can’t do. Same as I was finding week points in any system I did it for VB2 even more precisely.
If you wanna keep posters you shouldn`t go on a personal rampage on a ghetto level at least not wit me bacause i got better things to do. No matter how well i should manage to cut jafcos out in a card board for you, you would refuse to give it any credit whatso ever. You had taken your stance even before you read the first line of his system.
Kelly, I was very curious when you told me Jafco has a system he can play 3 pins.
I said to myself waaaaaoo, this must be something. That is where my disappointment is coming from.
Steve Fortes chart that bruce posted, is the basic essentials for the last 4 revoloutions for traditional VB and you call that "donkey". By doing that you classify 99% of all VB players as donkeys. As if you had something better. Why aren`t then just 1% playing classic "estimation" VB and 99% "prediction forester" ?
LOL I did not call it donkey but I said I would not use it. Effectives of chart as that is not a match with the way I play. So if you are racing with a horse you wouldn’t switch to race with donkey.
I explain want is additional problem with the chart.
As you could see, after calculation I come to rotor speed 2.4sec. I couldn’t find it on chart. (another estimation to find it) 
When I use multiplying factor I never have such problem because adjustment is not in steps as on the chart. Anyway I do not know single player achieved something to use any cards or charts. Maybe you are the one so rise you hand. That chart is only a book explanation helps reader to understand what needs to be done, bu how you going to do it is your creativity. My point was to explain why we do not need to convert pockets to rotor speed then define position in pockets where to shift, if we can straight use pockets, be faster and have more precised adjustments. If you can find it usefull for you, then use it if you can’t who cares.
I like discussing roulette with people that knows the stuff and knows how to discuss without getting personal, and thats not your field. If i have to start every post by reposting my view because you twist things, it gets very tiresome.
We all like discussing roulette, what for you is that I twisted for me is a fact. But somehow I feel same, you twisting my words, and if you read other arguments all over net they feel same way, obviously you do not see 2 sides and you go even for more, saying at the other forum I couldn’t understand LS. I am not sure what that would be twisting or something else.
We are never gonna have a productive conversation on Roulette, THATS why i don`t post here any more, NOT because you bash Jafco, because there really aren`t any you can accept as being able to play a proper game.
That’s not what you’ve stated at Stefano’s forum.
You said you will support every forum except foresters because he discredits all competitors. Well done Kelly. It was as Nobel’s price for Stefano.
I assume you did not understand full meaning of what you’ve said and where. And now you claim something else as a reason. :
Any game is proper game, I accept Jafcos, I never said it’s a scam, I said it is misrepresented and it has some points wrong and badly explained.
I tell you something, from all paper systems sold on net that I come across in past few years, I found BOB GORDONS system the most valuable one. Part one is a rubbish, but part 2 has the best explanations on everything that matters, you can see it is done by player not just someone who wants to sell. And yes, 2 pin game applies on his system as well. 
When you go into "black box" mode you post some really bad english nonsense and back it up with some numbers that don`t make any sense when we don`t know exactly what you talk about. So we end up all being amateurs and idiots in your mind.
HEHEH, I always know that it was your problem with me.
Kelly cant accept to ask, and if he has to ask again it is disaster. I never see it that way, you could always put blame on me and say your English sucks.
If you do not understand and can not follow calculation you should ask. When I write calculations I try to do it in step by step so someone who wants to follow it, he can do it easier and to see how it is done.
If I do not understand what do you mean I will ask you 10 times.
It doesn’t mean that I am an idiot.
Yes Kelly I understand not everyone can go through things as I do, especially if it is something I am explaining. But that really doesn’t make me wrong, or it doesn’t give you right to blame me for something that you couldn’t follow or were afraid to ask.
With what you did you made it much worst. Some people asked me to explain something 10 times, I never consider them idiots, but when I found some of your posts around without no reason to write it, what else I could think.
I wasn’t one who was bashing you, but it was opposite.
Anyway thanks for coming.
But of course we need to make new observation points in some wheels ,becasue the reamaining time is Not in all wheels the same as his VB cards.
Exactly and that is another point I was explaining.
You can’t define remaining ball traveling time by ball color and material, as Jafco’s cards are made.
No serious and skilled player will ever use them, and that is why I said cards are for retarded to sit at home and practice until they find better way by themselves because nobody else explained them anything else.
The problem with Forester is that he has never tried a lot to find the correct revolution of the ball and thats why he doesn t agree with the advantage of the 2 pin game...Viper Forester found right ball revolutions more then you will ever see. Even when I play VB2.
Not sure when I did not agree with advantage of 2 pin game and since when 2 pin has anything to do with finding right ball revolution? VB2 doesn’t find right ball rev but still takes advantage of 2 pins.
I only understand whole picture and do not present only one side of it as some others do.
4 rev to the end you win ,
3 .25 you win
but he never explained that 4.25 hits same diamond as 3.25 and it is much close with ball speed to targeted 4 then what it would be ball that hits after 3.25 rotations.
I don t blame him because he is right for a very importand reason!!! It is really VERY hard ,close to imposible for anyone to be able to spot the 4 or the 3,25 rev the MOST OF THE TIMES in a real professional wheel that we find in a Casino these days...althought in Jafco s wheel I am preety able to spot these 2 speeds of the ball in almost all the spins.
Man, if that is what Jafco told you it is embarrassing. I think after so much communication you still didn’t understand him.
I did not see in his document or in approach that he is trying to distinguish in between 4 and 3.25 rotations.
Why would he, if there is no reason for that?
There may be a reason to find difference in between 4 and 4.25 since it produces wrong result, but to find such difference hmmmmm.
Viper how many times I told you that you do not understand 2 pin game? 
Forester U should read again what I posted…U misanderstood all!!!
I posted that UUUUUUUUU were RIGHT!
No I am not, I am left. :-*
Viper sent me an email asking me if I could post this on forum ,because Forester deleted his account and he couldn t defent himself.
the message from Viper:
I sent an email to Forester telling him how sad he made me with all these bad things he told about ME!After all the hard work I have done to promote his FF...Videos and reviews! I also told him that a person is showing his real character ONLY in under pressure.And he showed his character to me. I was so sad because I thought all this time that we were destance friends... and out chats was NOT only about Rouletet ,but also about families and personal stuff!Is this an insultimg Email???
The real reason why Forester blocked me in MSN before 10 days was because as we were speaking about his old E2 system…I made a friendly tease(FUN) to him and told him that If E2 is so good as he describes me…why he never made Millions from it!?
He told me to FUCK OFF and he blocked me!
this is how Forester is twisting things UP.I am very sorry about HIM.
I will no longer POST in forums…I saw 1st hand how sick the ppl that are posting in them are(with a few exeptions of course).
I needed to Defent myself by yellin the truth…because Forester Didn t gave Me the choise to do it because he deleted my account without letting me to tell my side of story
I asked Forester VIA emailto correct hislies and he told me that I was blackmail him!!!The Man has NO limits
That is what viper want to say.
Yes that is why i blocked him on MSN for 10 days.
I can’t spend every day so much time just with him.
Then he crtacked.
If he is not happy as i told him, there are many other forums around.