Advance Physics: Estimate the knee point using deceleration


#1

Advance Physics: Estimate the knee point using deceleration.

During the spindevelopment the ball will make different laps for each turnaround from the beginning of the spin to the very end.
Physics dictate that the ball will lose its force during the spindevelopment where we can take split-times to observe this deceleration.

Fictive illustration:

50
52
54
60
62
70
85
110
150
200
240 and so on …

This means that we could use the main focus pin and observe the ball each time it pass to observe how large gap we get between the numbers.
At the beginning we will have a tight pattern with later during the spindevelopment get wider.
It also depends on witch rotor speeds we would prefer to play regarding how the pattern will develop.

Personally i have not test this way to estimate the knee point - but i assume some one would be better of just using black numbers as they are due to higher contrast.
The question is if you can pass the magical zone being more then 4 to 5 rev to end.
It is fully possible being 6 rev to end using other known methods.


#2

Hi lucky_strike,
Your interest in physics cannot be unnoticed. I had some thoughts on this topic before, but it’s only now that I see someone sharing my interest!
According to the fictive illustration above and having in mind that precision is not the point here, I think that excluding the sudden accelerations /60…62 and 150…200/ will make it even a better one in terms of physics. Here I exclude the possibility of human error in clocking on purpose. So, in this set of thoughts, I’ve been wondering for a while if there is any pattern in the deceleration of the ball. Has someone found any common coefficient/ factor/ multiplier/ module in different lap times? I personally see some similarities to Fibonacci numbers. If there is a deceleration pattern, I’m quite sure it can be expressed in pockets and a balancing system /like Forester’s VB2/ can be found substituting T /time for observation/ with P /point of observation/.
Any ideas are welcome. Feel free to brainstorm!
LM


#3

There exist different ways to estimate deceleration - recent E.L. mention one using zero with angels …
I like do the idea using deceleration as you can use a fixating/static point for observation.

I am about to test deceleration as i mention in the other post - main reason is to test how you can adjust with different rotor speeds with out the help of playing cards and just change observation point - main idea is more complex and depends upon tracking and create a clocking pattern.

Well i will soon have some images with does videos - then i might post some shots about deceleration.
Will test OpenShot video editor as Avidemux did not have all the functions i been looling for - lol is great running linux - all free softwares …

Cheers


#4

:wink: The same method is used by tapping your finger or clicking your tongue everytime the ball passes the ref deflector. So you will get tap.tap.tap.tap…tap…tap…tap…tap or something like that. Then the same principal as with angles but the rotor speed does not influence the angles and also it is much easier than looking for the angle sizes.


#5

Yes, very nice input … estimate the ball by it self is much better … my opinion.
The question is if the gap that distinct the deceleration 6 turnaround to end is easier or harder (tapping with fingers or headcount) then using rotor … as you can read rotor very precise and accurate and get clear visual gap …

Well it sound like a fun project to explore :smiley:


#6

Looking forward to your video lucky_strike. In the meanwhile, in the next few days I’ll try to slow-mo all of the real spins that Forester uploaded and measure lap times. This way I think everybody interested in deceleration patterns will have raw material to work with.


#7

I have tried the tapping method brefore and I find it more accurate than headcount because you are on the dd and the gap you look for every spin is mostly pretty obvious. I did get a bit confused after a while of doing it missing my rev but then immediately knew it when the next longer gap came. It is quite fun and not difficult to do. :wink:


#8

Yes I am, thanks in advance. :-*

E.H.


#9

Keep in mind that the condition of the track will affect the distance of the gap (amount of deceleration) in each revolution. Smoother tracks will have smaller gaps and will be tougher to spot due to the lack of deceleration each revolution. Poor quality tracks are much easier to spot, but because of the amount of rapid deceleration, the amount of time left for prediction may be significantly shortened.


#10
Yes I am, thanks in advance.

I decided to start a new topic. You can find the measurements here: http://rouletteplace.com/index.php?topic=1599.0


#11

Well for me i will continue with this topic - at the moment i try to solve how to download youtube videos to my computer - there exist some ways doing that and i am getting support at the moment at Linux forum as i don’t use windows.
That is the first issue to solve - then i was thinking we could test different wheels, Foresters, Jafco, Masters’Roulette, Bob Gordon …
After downloading some of them that i don’t have i just have to run them with video editor software - i have some - but not one that allow me to paint or make marks on the video - i will search for that kind of video software …

I think it is pretty cool that you can backtrack all visual ballistics ways to estimate using video spins - as for me there exist some that i have not practice or fully understand - so that helps to learn further more …

Cheers


#12

I was about to suggest you “Free YouTube Download” at www.dvdvideosoft.com as you can download a whole bunch of videos together (similar to a torrent tracker), but just then i read that you are using Linux :-X I’ve got no experience with that one. :frowning:

i was thinking we could test different wheels, Foresters, Jafco, Masters'Roulette, Bob Gordon ...
I support you on this one. I believe that collecting a strong database can be really helpful in advancing one's roulette play. I noticed that just by mere slow-motioning and clocking video spins I start to get a feeling of the ball behavior and a lot of things that Forester shared in his videos about VB2 started to make sense to me.
I think it is pretty cool that you can backtrack all visual ballistics ways to estimate using video spins - as for me there exist some that i have not practice or fully understand - so that helps to learn further more ...
We live in a great time with an astonishing technology advance. It's our duty to make the most of it!

#13

Well i assume you are at a lower learning curve, so i will show you some other great topics and how easy it is to estimate the ball with out using the help of rotor …

Read this topic …
http://www.vlsroulette.com/index.php?topic=14903.0

Now the elegance with that method is that you can apply a solid headcount with out using thumper.
You can also start counting from any moment when the ball pass your main focus pin and follow the ball marching pattern along the ball track with out starring all over the wheel.

When you are beginner you might use a metronome watch or a mobile phone …
MOV00072.wmv

Thanks to Davey i got two - but i don’t use them anymore :slight_smile:

I solve the issue with youtube videos and can now download them.
Next is see how to convert them and find video editor software that allow me to paint.


#14

Did you film that video with the other metronome watch? :stuck_out_tongue:


#15

Any suggestion where I can buy a metronome watch (vibrating) which can be set to different time intervals?


#16

I pm you solution …

Here is the watch you see above …

Some one PM me about it and told me it was out of stock …