Intro to Biased Wheel Attacks


#21

SnowMan,

It’s an honor and priveledge to have you here at myrulet.com. I joined the Army when I was 18 years old.
25 years later, I am know 43 years old and just retired from the Army 4 months ago. I used up all 9 of my lives a long time ago - – and very feed up with the US government shipping me back and fourth to Iraq like a piece of meat. A lot of my comrads didn’t make it and neither should have I - - it’s a true miracle I am even still alive to tell my amazing story. I am in the process of having a book published about my 25 years in the Army. That ought to be a #1 best seller packed with some serious hard core material.

Immediately after my retirement, I joined my rulet.com back in April 2008- - - so I am pretty new here at myrulet.com. After Forester found out that I am retired and free all day, I was offered a moderator postion here at myrulet.

WHO IS SPINO?


#22

Spino is from Sweeden. I thought you were from Stockhom?

-Snowman


#23

[quote=“Snowman, post:22, topic:236”]Spino is from Sweeden. I thought you were from Stockhom?

-Snowman[/quote]

I am from the United States. I know of you and your reputation through special state of the art research. Remember, I was in the army intelligence underground unit for 25 years. I was also part of a special CIA operation I am not at liberty to discuss. I will say this- - - I knew about you when I was still over in Iraq 6 months ago.

You’d be very surprised at all the hi-tech equipment I have access to and just how easily I can track anyone in the world using just a hand held device. :wink:


#24

Dr. Spock,

The equipment sounds cool. :slight_smile:

In what part of the US do you live? Are you actively playing these days?

I’m in the US too.


#25

Ok, bias wheel players.

If with FF I can get 1:28 (Stefano says ;D ) how much I can get with biased wheel play.

How many spins is needed?

For example if we look one phenomena of imperfect rotor, where the ball likes to exit more often. It would be only small amount of spins that would exit there , and still there is wide scatter. By my understanding only spinners where the ball would spin over the junction where base and rotor are connecting would be really affected by rotor imperfection such as rotor tilt. How such small percentage also disturbed by scatter can overcome house advantage, and how so small advantage can be recognized.

Since the ball in last rotations has pretty much equal speed does it mean that you can completely ignore ball starting speed?
Regarding scatter, I assume that you do it differently for different rotor speeds.
;D


#26

Asuming you find a bias that is.

The edge can be between 3 - 10% and they cant really counter you if you play it smart. Early NMB doesnt matter. Dealer change doesn`t matter.

The bias is spotted by the eye first and later confirmed with the numbers, not the other way round. Depending on the scatter type on the wheel/ball combination, you might be able to add some percent to the edge with simple dealers signature (pocket counting) or better, VB.

Its not a game for a 1 man army playing with 20$ chips, its a whole different kind of breed of people who play this kind of game and the chip size is a bit out of the ordinary.

I can`t recommend bias play to the average player, even if the wheel was pointed out to him. He will need to be able to see the bias and be aware if the bias has not been fixed or moved or the number ring has been rotated so the bias is now 5 pockets away from the numbers he plays.

Asuming you find a bias that is…


#27

If bias is created as explained with rotor deformation, then only something as 10% of spins may be affected. If the ball is coming vertically towards rotor 10-90 deg. it really wouldn’t matter because it wouldn’t be affected.
From 10% of possibilities when scatter is applied it wouldn’t overcome house advantage.

If I predict and play every spin randomly and play every tenth with advantage knowing where the ball will hit rotor, if amount of bet is same, it still wouldn’t give any advantage since 90% is played with 2.7 negative expectations.


#28

great post kelly

forester we know that you are an engineer and we will be gentle with you

as explained earlier bais play takes many parts and everyboby has a part to play first find the bais then clock the numbers then bring on the players

many parts a few people

lets assume to have a bais wheel

how does one state the advantage

we use a hit rate say one in 25 or one in 20 or up to one in 32 depending on bais

our numbers or sectors might not hit for 50,100 spins but because the bais is real we know that it will hit, it may be that the minerox theory has some part
in all of this or some other conditions are happening ie cleaning ect,ect

i donot believe it is as simple as a engineering problem and has a straight ans

mabey snowman or mike can explian it better

btw why all you people veiwing this forum at this time and not out working or something

minerox
mtmatssoy


#29

[quote=“Snowman, post:24, topic:236”]Dr. Spock,

The equipment sounds cool. :slight_smile:

In what part of the US do you live? Are you actively playing these days?

I’m in the US too.[/quote]

Snowman, I am an hour drive from the Casinos in Atlantic city, NewJersey. The wheel speeds are pretty fast. the average speed is between 1.5 to 2 seconds per rotation.

My background the last 25 years is actually playing the craps tables. To be very honest, I just started focusing all my attention on the Roulette Wheel 4 months ago when I joined myrulet.com. However, the good news is that I am a fast learner and their is nothing standing in my way from devoting 16 hours a day studying the game of roulette, IF THAT’S WHAT IT TAKES TO BE ON THE WINNING SIDE.

AND SINCE I AM OFFICIALLY RETIRED- - - AND DO NOT HAVE TO GET A JOB EVER AGAIN IN THIS LIFETIME- - - UNLESS I’M OFFERED A POSITION AS CROUPIER AT THE ROULETTE TABLES IN A/C WHICH I’LL TAKE IN A HEART BEAT, MEANS I HAVE ALL DAY AND NIGHT- - 7 DAYS A WEEK TO STUDY AND EXPLOIT THE WHEELS IN ATLANTIC CITY FOR BIASES. 8)


#30

I do not have problem understanding that it may be a job for few people that it may take thousands of spins etc.
I only have simple question how advantage can be created.
How rotor deformation can produce enough to overcome house advantage if only small percentage of spins is affected with it.

Depending on the scatter type on the wheel/ball combination, you might be able to add some percent to the edge with simple dealers signature (pocket counting) or better, VB.

From all of that I can accept only VB but in the case if there is pocket bias.
For example VB predicts zero and we know that ball likes to stop more at #3 so we actually can shift centre of prediction to #3 .
But that is only if pocket is biased and nothing to do with rotor tilt.
We can’t expect good VB prediction, short cut by diamond and at same time that the rotor edge would affect the ball.


#31

Forester i can`t blame you for having your opinion, because it is identic with a lot of peoples opinions. I can prove that you are wrong on the edge topic and also on the rotor tilt/deformation topic but i would breach my confidence code and maybe put a red flag up that could cost “someone” i know a lot of money in lost opportunitys. And its not pocket money lost. Its the money that pays the mortgage.

Obviously, a rotor wobble is more effective when the ball is having action on the rotor. An old french Caro wheel with a bounce of 5 pockets is probably only good for a pocket bias. If there is a rotor wobble, it will interfere in every 6th spin approx. also on The Old Caro, and it might be good enough to beat the house, because you will still have a donator and a receiver sector.

To understand the power in a rotor wobble, you need to see how it works and why the math is actually giving you a helping hand along with the physics. Would +12 SD in 4400 spins tracked the correct way convince you ? If the casino did it the same way, the manager would shut the wheel down, only…, they don`t…They can counter such a wheel with a slow wheel speed like 6 - 9 sec. pr. rev, because for the wobble to be effective the ball needs travel lenght on the rotor or the number ring. On a 3 sec rotor speed and a normal bouncing nylon ball and normal low fret wheel, there will be action in the danger zone in at least 50% of all spins. Either in the actual zone or in one of the marginal zones.

Bias versus VB is actually a more sensitive subject than expected, because if you ask yourself: Will the bias overpower the VB prediction ? On a biased wheel it is not as if the next door neighbour to the biased number is never hit, because it IS, just not as often.

Here is a sample of a, i think, long gone wheel. 18.000 spins.

488 hits (+0.47 SD)
539 hits (+2.84 SD)
604 hits (+5.85 SD)
564 hits (+4.00 SD)
592 hits (+5.30 SD)
557 hits (+3.67 SD)
453 hits (-1.15 SD)

For safety i have left the actual biased numbers out, but imagine that a VB prediction gave you a prediction of the number that has a -1.15 SD value (for simplicity here we imagine that you only bet 1 number). Would you bet the neighbour number next or next next to it with the high positive SD values ? It is not as if the negative biased number is never hit, its just not as often, but will the VB overpower the bias or vice versa ?

There is a way to get round this little problem but it is more complicated than you at first sight would think, and its not for public display just yet. Maybe never.


#32

It has nothing to do with opinion or right/wrong.
I only ask questions and try to find reasons.
I estimated 1:10 of spins could be effected, you say 1:6.
1:10 is only my general picture of what is happening.
Perhaps it could be 1:6 but it depends on what you look and by which intensity the ball would be effected.
The ball may enter rotor lower part with different speeds of last rotation therefore exiting point may be there and hit rotor close to that but it may be at any point as well even the ball was effected by rotor wobble.

Let’s say that it is 1:6.
If we play 222 spins.
185 spins will not be affected.
If we play only 3 pockets it will be 3x185=555 units
We will win (185/37=5)x36x3=540

Those 185 spins we lose 15 units 555-540=15

With remaining 37 spins
By playing 3 pockets we will use 111 units
We should get back 108 another 3 units loss.

But we need to make from those 37 spins
108 +3 + 15 +36=162

36 is to get an extra hit and 3 +5 is to overcome losses because of house advantage.
162/36=4.5 hits

We play 3 pockets therefore 4.5/3=1.5

To have win of 36 units on 222 spins we would need on 1/6 of spins to have hit rate of 1:24.6. ~ 1:25

It means playing about 11 hours Total turn over 222x$300=$66,600
to win $3600 by placing 3x$100 per spin.
Profit 5.4 %

It looks as possible but the player needs to be sure since he can easily be without single hit for 50 spins, and that brings him down by$15,000.

The question is can wobble create 1:25 on those effected spins.
It is hard to estimate it but if you say so I believe.
As you say after many spins it should show if there is advantage, but in reality all you need to do is to analyze spins where the ball may be affected.
If I estimate from affected 37 spins probably half will end up everywhere, but half may exit close to expected number, and scatter law may be less random.

My experience with bias.
I do have one wheel which has dominant ball exit point so I play it as tilt.
But when ball is traveling in opposite direction something as 50% of spins turn in to spinners. Is rotor wobbled I do not know but I noticed that on many occasions when ball is going in that direction it stops around 22 while on faster rotor it is more on 7.
I did benefit from that few times, but in between there was and times where I lost playing that way. Since my play is something as 50-60 spins, it may be just normal.
Such high percentage of spinners if rotor is wobbled may be good to investigate.
I will look more in to it.

To Mike,
I never asked you did you ever find reason what has happened with 12,000 spins when it was showing huge advantage but when you start playing everything went wrong.


#33

Its hard to explain in details without going into details :slight_smile: but a rotor wobble is wide bias. Its not just a 3 - 7 pocket thing, also, think about it, its the whole rotor that goes up and down. Which means that in that part of the wheel where it goes down that is not the only bias, there will also be an uneveness on other parts of the wheel at that moment which means that the ball is affected on a lot of parts of the rotor.

That means that actually all spins is affected, but when i said 1:6 i mean on a wheel with hardly any bounce at all. The ball drops, bounces 5 - 6 pockets and thats it. Normally we see the ball travel between 8 - 32 pockets, sometimes more than a full revoloution and here there may be 75% of all spins affected. Like i said, they can counter it with a slow rotor, but then one might just swap to regular VB if there is a rough idea of the drop zone.

If the wheel is tilted and also has a rotor wobble, you will find the bias even stronger.

Normally you will map the wheell out with potential biased numbers/sectors and secondary biased numbers. Wether the biased parts under observation is either donators or receivers, you might or might not be able to tell right away. But if nothing out of the ordinary is happening in the sectors we target, we might just skip the wheel after a short while, no need for extensive and labour costly number following.


#34

Forester

When we looked back at that wheel after more than 15,000 clocked spins I think from memory we found three periods where the single heavily biased number (3 - 4 standard deviations I think it was) suddenly began to fail to show at 1:37 for a period of several hundred spins and then it reverted back to its heavy bias every time and still to this day although its not in constant use now.

We never found the reason.

We were sure the wheel hadn’t been properly cleaned because before and after one of the downturns there was dust and a tiny piece of paper in one pocket.

The ball drop off point hadn’t changed and it was heavily tilted perhaps 7:10 striking the same diamond and that didn’t change.

There was no obvious rotor wobble or deformation using Snowman’s detection methods.

We cannot explain those three occasions by Minerox’s theory and the Staff were totally disinterested so we are sure they weren’t manipulating it.

To me it is still a mystery and I have put it into my little bag of experiences that can only be explained as

"whatever you think can’t happen and won’t happen will happen".
That’s the McBain Theory of Roulette Results Behaviour.

#35

Kelly
How can the ball be effected by wobbling rotor if it is coming with sharp angle towards rotor. Change lifting up rotor level by 0,1 mm wouldn’t make any difference.
With 1/6 I thought you talking about balls which would spin at the rotor edge then fail down when rotor level drops.

Mike, I am trying to find reasons what could cause advantage.
If as Kelly says ball exit is wider then I thought then it wouldn’t produce needed advantage. And spins where the ball is not spinning in parallel with the edge wouldn’t be affected at all.

[glow=red,2,300]whatever you think can’t happen and won’t happen will happen[/glow]

i would add [glow=red,2,300]BAD[/glow] somewhere in that sentence.


#36

Im not gonna reveal the standards for when a wobble is big enough to create a bias that beats the house, but there are known and accepted standards. How the ball is affected is easyli understood when you map the wheel and map the wobble and check the number distribution where you expect the ball to run upwards and where you expect it to run downwards. But im moving in troubled waters and should probably be quiet.


#37

hey forester

mate a short holiday is in order

you need to catch up with kelly or snow so as to fully understand what is happening

cheer

minerox

mtmatssoy


#38

Minerox ,
Do you know when you are going to see me observing 1000 spins and not playing?

Never€¦ :stuck_out_tongue:

Kely€¦

where you expect the ball to run upwards and where you expect it to run downwards.

How could bias player have idea where the ball will hit, to know will it go upwards or downwards?


#39

Dr. Spock,


#40

Forester said…

i would add BAD somewhere in that sentence.

But I don’t agree because for example if a number has hit four times in a row then I will always back the next numbers that double spin to also show four times in a row. So for me thats GOOD.

That’s why last week when 13 double spun twice in half an hour and then showed up again shortly after I really plonked it to double spin for the third time and it did much to everyone else’s amazement at the table including the croupier and pit boss.

Just expect the unexpected to happen and you will find that it does so much more frequently than 1:37.

Keep winning

Mike.