Wheel Manufacturers\Models and Ball Types

1

I have been looking through the posts and see random mentioning of different manufacturers of wheels, models and ball types. Is there one post that highlights all the different wheel manufacturers, models and ball types and any uniqueness about each?

Also, what is the easiest way to identify the table mfg\model when at the casino and does anyone have any recommendations for identiying a specific wheel if i believe they are moving them around?

Thanks in advance…I dont have FFV but am looking forward to attempting to use the information \expertise provided here and see if it can help me improve my success this weekend.

2

Usually the easiest way to tell is by going to the manufacturers websites and checking out the wheel models there. Most wheels have the company name on the turret or ornament. Google TCS Huxley, Cammegh, Abbiati, and Gaming Partners International (Bourgogne et Grasset). There you will get decent descriptions and good pictures. That’s how I learned.

Telling the difference in ball sizes takes a bit of training. Any idiot should be able to tell the difference between the large ball and the small ball. But sometimes a wheel will have two medium sized balls either slightly sized differently or the same size but different materials. What I do when trying to determine the ball size is compare it to my fingers. For example, if you look at you fingers straight on when they are pointed at your face, you have 4 similar sizes that you can compare the balls to. I find you can get a much clearer idea of the ball size when you have something to compare it to. I used to only be able to tell the difference between balls when they are side by side, then if I could see the second ball in the shot glass. Since using the finger method I never have a major issue telling the ball sizes apart. The difference between a ring and middle finger is slight, but you can still see it.

The difference in ball type is easiest to notice in terms of colour. Another thing to consider is the amount of chatter in the ball track. That can also be an indicator of size and material at times.

Each wheel type and ball size/type will have different behaviours and scatter. This is up to you to find these differences as each wheel and ball combo is unique. There isn’t exactly a hidden scatter excel sheet floating around out there that is a universal standard. Every serious player tracks each wheel individually and rates its performance. There will be similarities, but each wheel is different. It is up to you to find this data.

If you think they are swapping wheels around, you need to find unique characteristics for each wheel. Usually the wood grain has unique features. Composite wheels with chrome cones are tougher to ID, but they can have scratches or a small defect that you can find. Try find something to ID the bowl, and something to ID the rotor as both parts are interchangeable. Sometimes you can get lucky and spot a serial number or bar code on the wheel that the casino can scan. Usually there are numbers under the bar code. That’s kinda rare though.

Getting proficient at ID’ing wheels doesn’t take all that much more than checking out the websites and being able to ID the products accurately. You should be proficient in a short period of time. ID’ing the correct ball sizes and types will take a bit longer because you need to see which balls the casino has to know the different sizes and types the casino has. It just means a few more hours of practice and observation. A lot of the guys who are well educated on the wheel types, ball types, and behaviours of each condition, have spent many weeks and months of various research perfecting each small detail. The more hours you put in, the more you will understand. So, getting and advantage this weekend is not a completely realistic goal in terms of time spent. It is a lot of info to take in, but it isn’t an impossible task. The more you learn, the more you will discover. The more you discover, the more you realize you need to learn! lol A lot of people are learning new things each day in roulette. It’s a bit of a battle, but the end result are worth it.

3

@Davey-Jones

Thank you for all of the information.

You have provided a great list for me to investigate and some great tips for identification of the mfg of the wheels and for uniquely identifying the possible movement of the wheels. My only regret is that I wish i would have known to identify the wheels i have visited over the last few years.

Based on your comments regarding the balls, it sounds like there are only three different size balls (large, medium and small) which are made from two different types of material. Is that an accurate assessment?

Again, thanks for the advice as I continue to try and absorb all this info.

4

Nice summary Davey!

My local Casino is celebrating 40 years of operation this month and I started playing about 10 years before that and now have played almost 100 Casino’s all around the world and looking forward to learning something new this weekend!

After you can identify your wheels and bowls and rotors and balls there is always an everchanging flow of Croupiers each with their little idiosynchrasies. I avoid short fat croupiers because they stretch and have uneven and irregular ball releases, generally left handed Croupiers on a right handed table are hopeless on Clockwise ball spins, but even worse are those Casino’s that insist Croupiers use their left hand on right handed tables and vice versa. With no doubt from my hundreds of thousands of recorded spins when the Ball is spun clockwise on a right handed table there is a more consistent spin and resulting distance than on anti-clockwise spins.

I am currently gathering data on Moon Phases to go with my Tide data effect on Ball spinning and distance results.

Wonder what I would do if they closed all the Casinos’or scrapped all the wheels? Well in my spare time I am using and monitoring automatic trading programs for Forex Currency Trading and also for Betting Horses and Greyhounds on Betfair. Does anyone suspect computers are affected by Moon Phases? :o waahhhhhh!

Mike.

5

:smiley:

6

@Mike…

You bring up another good for discussion point…maybe i should make a seperate posting…but i am wondering just exactly what details you (or anyone else reading) keep track of for each spin…CW vs CCW…rotor speed…ball speed…ball type…DDs…scatter…drop point…winning number?

Thinking about keeping track of all that wouldn’t leave much time to actually bet and god forbid…win!!

Thanks for the info

7

In a nutshell, the more details you can get on any one spin, the more informed you will be about that spin. Just a stream of numbers is kinda pointless. But when that same stream is only one direction, it becomes more interesting. The more details you add, the more interesting it will become. It still might be interestingly random, but it is still more interesting.

As for the balls… Small, medium, and large is a very general grouping. One casino I frequent has about 3 balls they will use. A small ball, a smaller ball, and big ball. As long as I can tell the balls apart, I don’t need a caliper. Knowing the material is a bonus, but ultimately you just need to know which ball is which. When you know how ball X reacts in comparison to ball Y, the size and colour is just a minor detail. The behaviour is what you are trying to understand.

All the things you mentioned to track are all things I pay attention to. Ball speed is tougher to track, but I found that you can make a general assumption on a ball’s relative speed based on the way it sounds on the track. Anyway, those are all great things to track in each spin. Getting all of those details logged in one spin is a bit of a challenge, but it is still not impossible. I’d pick the most important ones and try get those first and think of the others as a bonus. It’s also a good idea to track a dealer’s cup size.

8
I am currently gathering data on Moon Phases to go with my Tide data effect on Ball spinning and distance results.

Nice.

9
I use Date, Time, CW & AC, rotor speed, ball type, Croupier, DD, Rotor Strike, Wiining #, then calculate Scatter, Distance from Previous Result or Release Point depending on consistency and smoothness of croupier, compare with Distance of previous spin in same direction, squeeze in my VB, check for numbers that follow numbers greater than a one in six times on that wheel under those conditions, before I leave home I check the nearest Tide Station to my Casino for my playing period and now also record the Moon Phase and other rythymns and on return put it all into my database together with my financial result. [i]If it was easy everyone would be doing it.[/i]

Mike.

Cool, i like the way you do things :slight_smile:

Cool,

10

:smiley: I check how tired I am (then usually buy a Monster). I check Moon cycles, because if full moon I park close to the lighted main entrance because of werewolves.

I check how many hot girls are in the casino and take note of those with nice racks and mini skirts.

Oh yeah. When I leave I check how much I have won for the evening, then I check if my vehicle is still there because this is South Africa after all! :slight_smile:

11

I apologises Mike, i was going to make a reply but click on modify button and not quote button, so by mistake i change your reply.
Sorry, i should not post or write 7.35 in the morning LOL …

12

:wink: Nobody should post that time of the morning. You should sit with a nice cup of coffee that time of the morning like I do. Then wait at least till 07:45! ;D How are you anyway Pat? Haven’t had a chat with you for some time.

Cheers
Toxic

13

I am fine, thanks for asking :smiley:

14

Mike,

If you are looking for data to track, in terms of ball behaviour… I’ve found that a sufficient increase in barometric pressure can cause the ball to exit the upper track sooner, on the same wheel, with the same ball. Please keep in mind that different balls (mass, and size) will react differently to atmospheric pressure changes. So, note which wheel (location-wise in casino) and which color/size ball is being employed for your observed trials.

Buy a digital watch that has a feature to read baro pressure in millibars or kiloPascals. Take a reading once an hour and record at the top of your data card. Compare results from different days or different times of days to see if there is a correlation to certain diamond strikes and other unexpected changes in results. :wink:

Good Luck to you Mike,
Sharpshooter

15

[quote=“sharpshooter, post:14, topic:911”]Mike,

If you are looking for data to track, in terms of ball behaviour… I’ve found that a sufficient increase in barometric pressure can cause the ball to exit the upper track sooner, on the same wheel, with the same ball. Please keep in mind that different balls (mass, and size) will react differently to atmospheric pressure changes. So, note which wheel (location-wise in casino) and which color/size ball is being employed for your observed trials.

Buy a digital watch that has a feature to read baro pressure in millibars or kiloPascals. Take a reading once an hour and record at the top of your data card. Compare results from different days or different times of days to see if there is a correlation to certain diamond strikes and other unexpected changes in results. :wink:

Good Luck to you Mike,
Sharpshooter[/quote]

Casio Protrek PRG-250T-7DR … Titanium

But in Europa the same watch has different name…

Casio Protrek PRW-2500-7ER … Titanium

Around 400 Euro …

[b]

Air pressure

Sea & tide level

Moon phase

[/b]

There is also the same watch with out being made of titanium …
Casio Protrek PRW-2500-1ER
For around 320 Euro

16

I use google…

17

Don’t we all :smiley:

18

Thanks all for the information.

I did record Barometric Pressure from my local weather station for a year but could not find any relationship to my other Casino records so stopped. I did think maybe the air con in the Gaming room was having an effect and so I will follow up with your watch recommendation and try measuring at the table instead.

Cheers

Mike.
Lucky, no problems I have made some shocking posts after too much alcohol although I never drink when playing or play after drinking.

19

I doubt any casino has the ability to control the air pressure, especially with the doors opening and closing. If that were the case, you would get hit with a blast of air whenever you enter or leave the casino. I also suspect that the doors would be unlikely to close properly. The pressure inside the casino is likely to be just as affected as the pressure outside the casino.

20

[quote=“mikemcbain, post:18, topic:911”]Thanks all for the information.

I did record Barometric Pressure from my local weather station for a year but could not find any relationship to my other Casino records so stopped. I did think maybe the air con in the Gaming room was having an effect and so I will follow up with your watch recommendation and try measuring at the table instead.

Cheers

Mike.
Lucky, no problems I have made some shocking posts after too much alcohol although I never drink when playing or play after drinking.[/quote]

Mike.

What about the moisture in the air - degree of water in the air - humidity … ?

Relative Humidity

Humidity is normally measured as relative humidity (RH). RH is a percentage that indicates the amount of moisture in the air relative to the maximum amount the air can hold at that temperature. For instance, when air at a given temperature contains all the water vapour it can hold at that temperature, it has a RH of 100 per cent. If the humidity exceeds 100 per cent, moisture will begin to condense from the air. If the air contains only half the water it can hold at that temperature, the RH is 50 per cent.

Warm air can hold more moisture than cool air, so that the RH of a sample of air will change as the temperature changes, even though the actual amount of moisture in the sample air does not. For example, as a sample of air cools the RH rises.

Using Your Hygrometer

Your hygrometer will show the relative humidity (RH) in your house. Although the RH will not be exactly the same throughout your home, one hygrometer per house is usually sufficient. You should place it where the humidity symptoms are most obvious, in the room that you are most concerned about, or where your family spends the most time. Because hygrometers are small, they can be moved around in your house from time to time.

Don’t place your hygrometer near a radiator, a heat register or a chimney, or in any other location where it could be affected by direct heat.

Remember that a hygrometer does not produce instant results. It may take up to two hours to provide a stable reading in a new location or to adjust to sudden changes in relative humidity.

Here is a watch with Hygrometer …