# How to take advantage of a 2-3 pin game?

Okay, so i understand how a 1 pin game works, but if say i find a wheel where the strike point is distributed between 2 pins or even 3, which pin would i use for counting? also, if someone could please explain the logic/maths behind it that would be great. thanks = )

If you want to read my opinion you can here.
http://rouletteplace.com/index.php?topic=580.0
It’s a long thread but I believe I explained a lot.

You can take advantage of 2 pins ONLY if the ball has a BIG decleration inside the ball track.
This is because you have to identify 2 deferent ball speeds. So if the decleration is very fast and smooth ,then you can t take advantage of it and as Forester correctly say it will be 50% situation created by luck.

I have personally found 1 wheel in the past that i could identify the 2 speeds and i was predicting accuratelly the strike point. (But I couldn t play because of the bad scetter)
In 10 spins of 5 and 5 on eatch DD I could predict correctly the 8 of 10.
I did test of about 30 spins and it was clear that it wasn t a coinsidence but a matter of knowledje and skill.

But its a very hard thing to find a wheel with so nice decleration in order to apply this game ( at least in my country)

You must also have a certain rotor speed range to take advantage of it. So if the wheel is faster or slower then you can t take advantage of the 2 pins.
The only thing you can do is to play only the spins that you see(from the ball speed) that have more chances to hit ur 1 aim pin.

[quote=“viper, post:3, topic:684”]You can take advantage of 2 pins ONLY if the ball has a BIG decleration inside the ball track.
This is because you have to identify 2 deferent ball speeds. So if the decleration is very fast and smooth ,then you can t take advantage of it and as Forester correctly say it will be 50% situation created by luck.

I have personally found 1 wheel in the past that i could identify the 2 speeds and i was predicting accuratelly the strike point. (But I couldn t play because of the bad scetter)
In 10 spins of 5 and 5 on eatch DD I could predict correctly the 8 of 10.
I did test of about 30 spins and it was clear that it wasn t a coinsidence but a matter of knowledje and skill.

But its a very hard thing to find a wheel with so nice decleration in order to apply this game ( at least in my country)

You must also have a certain rotor speed range to take advantage of it. So if the wheel is faster or slower then you can t take advantage of the 2 pins.
The only thing you can do is to play only the spins that you see(from the ball speed) that have more chances to hit ur 1 aim pin.[/quote]

Hi viper, what method do you use in order to determine the ball speed and its relation to which diamond it will hit? is there a specific method of measuring it using the FF device?

I am speaking about VB here… and no RCs.
There is NO system in VB that can measure the ball speed accuretly .( BG system gives a way but its a BS and u can float even 2 revs and Laurence scots system with crossover patter that is also BS and unpractical in real conditions simply because u can t have the EXACT rotor speed in all the spins )

The ONLY and the most accurate way to measure the ball speed in VB is by eyes observation and brain memory… this is the ONLY and the most accurate way.

The best way is with the Viper RC… but we speak here about VB

Ps. Forester VB2 also gives a solution that is the BEST of the BEST and most flexible one… BUT its for 1 pin game and it has limited rotor speeds in order to work…
But If u have the conditions that favours the VB2 it is the BEST way to play.
For example IF i have in front of me a wheel that is tilted and the rotor speeds are from 3-5 secs and I have to chose between the traditional VB and the VB2 then there is no question in that !!! VB2 is the way to go because it is shifting and is correcting the mistakes that with traditional VB they will be catastrofic!

[quote=“viper, post:5, topic:684”]There is NO system in VB that can measure the ball speed accuretly
Ps. Forester VB2 also gives a solution that is the BEST of the BEST and most flexible one…[/quote]

gambler PM me and i will see if i can help you.
You should not care so much what you find in public forums and what most of them has to say about the game - it is very rare to learn to pin-point out what is and what is not.

The qoute is just to tell you its a load of bullshit.

gambler just using observation with out any RC we can be deadly acc
You can be one with the wheel and the read is so simpel is not at all about rocket sience.

As you see there is very rare that the spin go one extra and my opinion is that VB2 is not as acc then many other ways withs i recommend
After time and experince come you can predict and make the visual read before it appers later into the spin development

Now i will shut up

Here is one exampel from Kelly and the others you can achive using same method.
Personaly i just know using head count and thumper if i have one early or late ?.??

8,56
8,44
8,53
8,23
8,48
9,34 !!!
8,51
8,54
8,46
8,37

or

9.??
9.??
9.??
9.??
9.??
9.??
9.??
9.??
9:??
9.??

or

10.??
10.??
10.??
10.??
10.??
10.??
10.??
10.??
10.??
10.??

LoL
Gambler keep in mind that lucky_strike is a person who is still searching for ways to win roulette with Red and Black Patterns :o
From that just make ur own conclusions.

I have already given you my point of view… If you are really intrested in learning VB you will hear and read a lot… in the end when you will practice and test all of them , you will make ur own conclusions…

I will not post anything else in this thread becauseI can t speak with ppl that haven t even understood the basics of VB and I hope that Forester will take care of the NO REASON attack that LS did here.

[quote=“viper, post:7, topic:684”]LoL
Gambler keep in mind that lucky_strike is a person who is still searching for ways to win roulette with Red and Black Patterns :o
From that just make ur own conclusions.[/quote]

No sorry i dont play red and black or any other roulette system and stop pretend that you know how to read the spin development with out your RC.

Who are you telling a beginner like gambler that VB2 is superior to any other method - easy to assume you dont know how to make a good solid visual read - so the question is what you compare it with.

There is NO system in VB that can measure the ball speed accuretly Forester VB2 also gives a solution that is the BEST of the BEST and most flexible one...

O_o

Forester 5 years ago explained and even showed it on video how advantage is taken from 2 or 3 diamonds, and I do not care if most people couldn’t understand it or just start understanding.

Currently I have some other things to do but later on I will write another article with detailed explanation and add to this thread.

In brief, and you can check it on video spin in slow motion (, if you use avdemux)
Imagine you are targeting to identify 6th ball revolution before then ball drops. (ball CW direction)
The ball makes 6 revolutions hits dominant diamond DD at 12 o’lock and drops at zero.
If you rewind back ¾ of rotation so the ball is above diamond at 3 o clock you will see that and zero is around there, which means if the ball did hit 3 o clock diamond it will drop at your predicted sector.

On same way if the ball travelled ¾ extra it would come to 9 o’clock diamond and zero would be there.
Base on that if we have 2 diamonds mostly dominant with hits where the ball drops it is really irrelevant do we target first one or the second one. The best is to target one with the most his because on the other diamond with les hits predictions are only close and less accurate. How accurate it is, it depends on a rotor speed, in usual slow rotor is good. (Some people have problem understanding that any diamond can be used as a reference and we still can take advantage from both diamonds)

So with a reasonable rotor speed we can have additional advantage from the second diamond.
But often it is not the truth and often people who want to be convincing like to ignore it.
Imagine 12 and 3 o’clock vertical diamonds, each one getting 30% of hits.
We might have advantage from second one but until ball form 5.25 rotations is moving towards 6 in between we also have 6 and 9 o clock diamonds getting 40% of hits which are not in our favour.
If we getting in total 70 %+ then is worth playing.
To take advantage of both diamonds there is no VB process or anything that we do, it is something happening on the wheel in last ball rotation.
VB player targets 6th or any particular ball revolution by identifying moment when the ball deceleration suddenly changes (the knee point) .

Most of the time he can get it right.
If he can have feeling for about 40 Ms ball difference he can lover his accepted speed range to have a centre in between speeds when the ball makes 5.25 and 6 revolutions that way he might increase his chances. I do not believe he can in any casino conditions I have seen, it’s hard enough to detect close range identifying the largest ball deceleration.

(What Viper explained is that most of the time he could guess . Observing ball then he says ahaaa this one will go 6 rev , and this one will go 5.25. After that the point is to target that speed ranges and everything in between. )

However you can search for VIBE system where Jafco sells system where he estimating 3rd or 4rth revolution before the end if spin with success. But in the video he used ball deceleration is 350ms/r while in casino at that moment during the spin it is ~100ms/r which makes it much harder.

Prediction 3rd rotation in casino is harder than prediction sixed where the ball deceleration is greater ~200ms/r. All VB players I know predict earlier.
For me predicting 3 rotation before then the ball drops doesn’t have any use since I can’t place enough chips to have consistency in winnings. It would be hard to place any bets but if it is that way good for someone keep it going.
Regarding FFZ/FFV

FFZ measures ball speed and predicts accordingly, if the wheel has 2 diamonds getting most of the hits, set it on spin where the diamond gets hit at the lowest part (if it is a first diamond in ball direction).
If it is clocking at second diamond (3 o’clock )then set it at the top. This helps only if predictions are later in time like 5-6-7 rotations before then the ball drops.

Lucky, many people tried many VB systems and on the end stayed with VB2. Because after understanding how it works it is the best for them.

However I never claimed it is the best I just say it is easy and very practical to apply.
If you have something superior it would be appreciated if you can back up your claims.
Please just don’t tell me you found a new eBook.

“”"“If you have something superior it would be appreciated if you can back up your claims.”"""

LoL , How can he has something superior if he hasn t even understood the BASICS of VB?

“”"“What Viper explained is that most of the time he could guess “””"

No I wasn t guessing.
I had spotted 2 deferent speeds ranges that the 1 was producing hits on the 1 DD and the other on the other DD.
A 80% Hit rate isn t a guess… and i could stay there and do it all night long.
And the prediction was at the 5th and the 4.25 revs…still slow but enough time to place bets.

Keep that for girls.

[quote=“viper, post:10, topic:684”]"""“If you have something superior it would be appreciated if you can back up your claims.”"""

LoL , How can he has something superior if he hasn t even understood the BASICS of VB?

“”"“What Viper explained is that most of the time he could guess “””"

No I wasn t guessing.
I had spotted 2 deferent speeds ranges that the 1 was producing hits on the 1 DD and the other on the other DD.
A 80% Hit rate isn t a guess… and i could stay there and do it all night long.
And the prediction was at the 5th and the 4.25 revs…still slow but enough time to place bets.[/quote]

HAHAHA this make me think of when you made a fool out of your self chatting with Snowman - but i will be nice and stop at that.

Forester there are others at this forum who know witch visual read i speak of and i dont post public - so you are right i would not back up public - but sure i can send you a copy of the visual read and back up my opinion that i find the xxxx xxxxx xxxxx more acc when it comes to key the momentum.
But we will probably just disagree witch visual read is most acc.

When are Viper going to back up hes claims and tell us what kind of visual read is worse then VB2 - that would be very intressting.

What happened if you target particular ball rotation and instead of 5th rotation you predict in 4th.
You lose!
With VB2 you still get right prediction. same applies to 6,7,8,910…

I didn’t hear anything new form anyone at this forum and I didn’t receive
a “copy of the visual read” from you or at least brief explanation.

“”""“What happened if you target particular ball rotation and instead of 5th rotation you predict in 4th.
You lose!
With VB2 you still get right prediction. same applies to 6,7,8,910… “””""
Exactly… this is what i posted about the Vb2…didn t I ?

But in this wheel that I could predict the 2 deferent ball speeds You could not float 1 rev because as i told it had a great decleration (For a casino wheel )

“”"""What happened if you target particular ball rotation and instead of 5th rotation you predict in 4th.
You lose!

If the wheel speed is right, you can predict ok even with trad VB even if you are one rotation wrong. 5th= Zero at 12 o clock, 4th= 5 at 12 o clock, vis a vis betting taking advantage of opposit diamond hits.

Talking about quality with which system can predict.
But yes you can be in wrong ball revolution (wrong prediction) and still have a win if…xxx or yyy or zzz
Another good reason for that could be if the rotor speed is equal to ball speed

Wheel speed is certainly the most important focus for the player. Why?
Because:

1. Each wheel speed is equal to a ball scatter, more or less predictable. Even the best VB or Computer cannot fight against a random ball scatter.
2. As stated above, some wheel speeds do not influence the prediction even if the player is wrong by 1 or even 2 ball revolutions.
3. Influences bias.

Another question, Last week when i visited a casino, i noticed that on the roulette wheels there was a tiny camera like device strapped onto it, each time the ball passed the camera, a tiny dot would flash, and each time the number zero would pass the camera, it was also flash. My question is, why on earth would the casino be wanting to measure the ball speed and rotor time? are they also attempting to track their own wheels for bias or fault?

Reading the above posts, i am interested in knowing how advantage players track the wheel speeds, then make a decision as to how that wheel speed will effect their outcome. I mean, each wheel speed produces a different scatter, sure with FF we just automaitcally measure wheel speeds, however if the scatter is going to be different, what is the point? especially with FF, seeing as we do not know what wheel speeds produce what scatter. Is wheel speed and scatter just adjusted by observation alone? or do advantage players just dont play a particular spin if the wheel speed is too fast, or varying too much from the original?

“”"" or do advantage players just dont play a particular spin if the wheel speed is too fast, or varying too much from the original?""""

This is the most common and safe and Pro way to go.
VB is included in the ADVANTAGE PLAY group of plays.(togeather with Bias play) So that means that the Aper must play ONLY on situations that will favour him… so if a spin doesn t favour him he must NOT play…
Of cource he can make some adjastments by his obsearvation … eg. If he had seen that a faster wheel is producing less scatter(this is the most common) he can reduce some observation hours(minus some pockets) from his privious predictions when rotor was slower…
BUT this will be just an estimation … So the Aper must not make any guesses and estimations, simpy because it can reduce his advantage.

So as Laurence Scot very accurate and correct say : You must play the spins that favours you…
Playing the spins that favours you isn t a NON PRO way , or a chicken way… IT IS A PRO way .

This is why the biggest weapon that an APer must have is PATIENCE

Gambler
I saw ur PM and I would like to help you but my account has some kind of problem and I can t send Pms.
As soon as this will be solved I will reply to you.