How to cheat at the roulette table?

Using a roulette computer as FF would be classified as cheating.
Using applications for mobile phones can be classified as cheating.

Would roulette visual prediction be classified as cheating?
If we look from black jack side and card counting, casino classifies it as cheating simply because the player things in an inappropriate way.

If you have vibrating device in your pocket that is activated, would that be classified as cheating?

Analyzing roulette wheel bias.
Is that cheating as well?

Obvious cheating would be:
Placing bets on the table after the ball drops.
Removing bets from the table after the ball drops.

What else is classified as cheating at casinos roulette tables?

Mr. Forester is ti okay to have bug in the ear?

And communicate with someone outside or in hotel room maybe if it isnt too far?

I would like to know how that works actualy?

I wonder actualy what is max distance one could reach with that to speak and hear it nicely? It seems to me you are selling one of those things?

If AP cant work, then there is something else that could? :wink: hehe

But for that you would need to have partner, and I am too jealous about sharing any knowledge with anyone… :-X

Cheers

Tiro

I wonder actualy what is max distance one could reach with that to speak and hear it nicely? It seems to me you are selling one of those things?
Yes the FFA has that option, but I run out of FFA’s. Perhaps I can make one or 2 more but I'll not to because new FFA is coming. Distance is just around the table. Bluetooth receiver can be paired with FFA and with partners mobile.
But for that you would need to have partner, and I am too jealous about sharing any knowledge with anyone.

Most people play alone.

FFZ is the best roulette computer and new model is coming this month. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

This is sad, i was searching net for cheating roulette and found this post.

"My friend fell for this. The guy selling this is a guy in Australia, a notorious Internet Criminal that has been to prison in the past for scamming people using the internet. Put his name in Google. His name is Steven Hourmouzis and he lives in Australia. Australia is the new Nigeria when it comes to scams, they guy is still in business after been repeatedly reported to the authorities like the ACCC and the Police. Well, history has it that Australia was where they sent all the criminals, most of them descendants of criminals and some became Police and the Law of the land. Its about time this guy was put behind bars.
"

Someone used my name Forester to look as i was writing it. It was posted only yesterday.
Even i would agree with the post, except description of Australians, i have nothing to do with it >:(

It sure doesn’t sound like the real Forester!

Our Legislation was recently updated and in part it says this…
snipped…
The use of a prohibited device in a casino. A prohibited device is a device:
a) used or intended to be used for interfering with the normal operation of gaming equipment; or
b) used or intended to be used for the purpose of enabling a person to count or otherwise record cards dealt in the course of gaming in a casino.
snipped…
Failure of a person, on prescribed premises, to state his or her full name and residential address to an inspector or a police officer when required or to state a name or address that is false.

Now I have no intention of testing these in Court but it seems to me that that a FFV or FFZ or FFA would not be exempt?

I remember reading the original Act of Parliament which said that the Casino can bar an undesirable. And when questioned later the Casino management stated that an undesirable was anyone that was a consistent winner.

Apparently winning too much is cheating. Just ask Phil Ivey.

This isn’t legal advice as I am not a lawyer, but this is my opinion and I think it is pretty accurate.

Cheating is against the house rules and against the law in some cases. In order for them to accuse you of cheating, they need to prove you were cheating if they want charges to stick. So if they had surveillance footage of you cheating via past posting, it’s pretty well a slam dunk if they want to take legal action. Using a covert device is going to be a lot tougher to prove, but it CAN be done. Using a vibrating device would have to be proven to help you win better than winning without using one. Good luck selling that one to judge/jury. Using a straight VB method would hardly be considered cheating, but see Phil Ivey for a more detailed explanation. These are just a few reasons why you will hardly ever hear of someone getting charged with cheating. Which brings us to the magic word…

Trespassing!!!

Casinos are for the most part, private property. And just like any other private establishment, they have a right to refuse service to ANYONE! That’s why you hear card counters bitching about being 86’d from a casino for trespassing and NEVER for cheating. Even if they could prove that you were cheating, it’s much easier to boot you for trespassing.

Like anything else with the law, they have to prove your guilt beyond a shadow of a doubt because you are innocent until proven guilty. You are speeding, the cop has to prove to the court that you were. Saying he recorded your speed with his radar gun is better than saying, “I saw him going really fast.”

So when the casino has footage of you on their property, it’s just way easier to say, “Your presence is not longer welcome on our property.” Or something like that. Not to mention the hornet’s nest that could be stirred up if they tried to charge you with “Cheating” and by some brilliance, you beat the case and the courts ruled using a roulette computer is not cheating (Pure fantasy that will never happen). Just imagine the impact that would have on the game as we know it.

It took a while for the courts to rule that Card Counting wasn’t cheating because casinos weren’t dumb enough to charge counters with cheating. Some counters like Ken Uston took the casinos to court saying they had no right to bar skilled players from playing blackjack. The New Jersey supreme court agreed and since then, casinos are VERY leery about taking AP’s to court.

This is interesting.

"
Grosvenor Casinos, out of the UK, is going to catch these would be cheaters with new software being placed in the existing CCTV cameras. The software will look at the video and will calculate the speed of the ball when the call for last bets was made. Then it will look to see if a hand places chips on the table after the last call.

The software will also catch cheaters who use the “top hatting” method. This includes colored chips and and changing them after the ball starts rolling.

Roulette players usually make their bets as late as they can and with 10 people sitting around a table, croupiers must be on their toes to catch any cheating but it is difficult. This new software will make their jobs much easier and help to get the crooks off their tables.
"

[quote=“mikemcbain, post:5, topic:871”]Our Legislation was recently updated and in part it says this…
snipped…
The use of a prohibited device in a casino. A prohibited device is a device:
a) used or intended to be used for interfering with the normal operation of gaming equipment; or
b) used or intended to be used for the purpose of enabling a person to count or otherwise record cards dealt in the course of gaming in a casino.
snipped…
Failure of a person, on prescribed premises, to state his or her full name and residential address to an inspector or a police officer when required or to state a name or address that is false.

Now I have no intention of testing these in Court but it seems to me that that a FFV or FFZ or FFA would not be exempt?[/quote]

Did these warnings come from the former Soviet Union?

If you notice the first red type above; I can state with confidence that the FF-computers DO NOT interfere with the “gaming EQUIPMENT” in any way…Touching the wheel; shaking the table etc would be an example.

As for an “inspector” asking for my full name and address; well this is outright against anyone’s human rights in a normal society. I don’t think a cop can even ask this and demand an answer without cause or perhaps even a warrant.

Re: “Trespassing”

I asked this question in extreme detail to an upper-level official who oversees the gaming commission in Ontario Canada.

I started by asking if a casino could eject someone who is “trespassing.”

She said they could as it is private property

[As an aside; I fail to comprehend where a PUBLIC place that allows people to enter without formal invitation or a knock on the door constitutes a “private” property]

At any rate; I pressed for why they might eject someone

She said that if you were unruly or causing a disturbance or something along these lines is the only way they would eject someone.

I then asked - specifically - if you could be asked to leave or be ejected if you were winning

She had a puzzled tone to her voice when she said “Why would you be asked to leave if you were winning?”

I said “Exactly”

I then said, so you can’t be asked to leave because you are winning

She said that she had never heard of that happening [She’s either naive or lying as I’m certain she has heard of Las Vegas!]

The reason this is important is because the Government runs the casinos in Ontario Canada

They also oversee all the Provincial lotteries.

Quite recently there was a LOT of media attention over a LOT of scamming re winning lottery tickets.

The Government looked VERY bad for their neglect regarding this issue and made major changes that make the lotteries and winning tickets far far more transparent and fraud-proof

This same government does NOT need another scandal regarding ejecting someone for “winning.”

Wondering how Kasian start out when he was new into visual ballistics - he also might been using a thumper.

Davey is right -

Once they ask you to leave, you must do so or you are trespassing. Last time I was in Vegas on a nice winning streak in high rollers area, boss simply said, “Sir I’ve seen enough”. To which I replied, “Excuse me?”. His reply, “Sir you’re simply done. collect your chips and cash out. These men will escort your out of our casino.” I turned, and two big, burly security guards appeared out of no where. I did as he said.

Later, when I checked with my attorney, he said that casinos are private property with an implied invitation that is open to the public. However this invitation can be revolked at any time, for any reason. Once revolked, you must leave the premises or you can be arrested and detained for trespassing. After some time (maybe 3 months, it varies) you can try to go back. After two or three such episodes, you may be permanently barred.

Other times they may take you into a back room and interogate you if they want to know what you are up to. "Who are you? where are you from? Where is the rest of your team? Do you have any concealed communications or computer devices on you? etc…

Vegas is bad this way - they may let you warm up (when you are losing a little money at first), but once you start winning, they ask you to leave. Another Vegas boss summed it up this way to me, “My side of the table is business, your side is for entertainment. You’ll have to leave the casino now.” :’(

They are a big bunch of whiners.

Just to clarify (Not legal advice)

As sharp said, the casino is private property with an invitation to the well behaved public. Just like any bar, store, or Burger King. Say you walked into Burger King and ordered a Double Whopper with cheese but NO Pickle and the cashier looked at you and then called the manager over. The Manager, being the nice guy that he is smiles and asks to see your ID. You, being the smart guy that you are, say “Uh… NO!” To which the manager replies, “Would you come with me to my office for a chat please. We just want to know who you are and what you are doing.”

Honestly, how many of you guys would actually go?

You’d be like “EFF THIS! I’m getting McDonald’s” And you would leave. Why? This wonderful thing called freedom. So when the manager gets Crystal and Brandon and their paper hats to keep you from leaving. Well, there are a few words to describe that. I like “Kidnapping” but “Illegal detainment” sounds a lot better. No one can hold you against your will. And you don’t have to give your ID or information to ANYONE. Cops are the exception if you are operating motor vehicle, then you may need to provide them with a driver’s licence. But if some homeless guy wants to see your ID, asks you a bunch of personal questions and asks to have you accompany him to his alley for a private chat, you can say “Thanks, but I would like to leave now”. Just like you say to any dink casino employee who tries to detain you. They are no different than a Burger King employee or some random dude on the street. It’s also a good idea to have your cell phone recording any conversation and always say those magic words. “I would like to leave now.” “Can I please go now?” “Why aren’t you letting me leave, I want to leave.”

Another thing to consider for those of you who live in free countries with actual constitutions and human rights. Here in Canada and the US, you never have to talk to the police if they are questioning you. That’s the POLICE for crying out loud! So what the hell do you think you have to tell a casino security gorilla? Not a DAMN thing! What happens when they call the cops? You still don’t have to say a damn thing. But still, try ask to leave whenever you can and get it on tape!

If you do get detained against your will, then it’s time to play for high stakes in a wonderful place called court! Just make sure you have a good audio/video document of the whole event and the evil casino employees who wrongfully held you against your will causing you undo fear, stress, and suffering and violated your civil right to be free. The animals…

Generally, they will just let you walk out the door. :slight_smile:

I’ve thought about the legal aspect of cheating in great detail and i can see a situation which would be major concern to Casinos.

If it could be shown roulette is not a random number generator, and the Casino’s know it’s not, who’s the cheat?

It would be an interesting case, i suspect Casino’s would either fight tooth and nail or settle with a confidentiality agreement.

The ramifications of loosing a case like this could be catastrophic, for them and the game of roulette.

LifeofLeisure