Degree of tilt and chances in reality?

Hello gents

I am still very fresh about learning and practicing VB so i would please to clarify some doubts i have if you can help.

Ok last few days i started some practice on DVD spins from B. Gordon i have. First i took tilted wheel and one rotation while other i was skipping. I had one DD and practiced, went good i think because after i finished, put all in LS analayzer and got 76% of edge in best scenario.

Then i took other rotation of same spinnings and had a bit interesting situation for me. I had 2 DD-s on rotation lol One rotation 1 DD, other with 2 DD-s of the same wheel and spinnings. I read that can happen and as procedure tells, took last active of those 2, and interesting got even bigger edge this time of 103%. I was playing with pausing video so i could be as much precise i can, just to practice i am doing it right, later with more practice i ll make smooth all steps, and with minimum error and time delay between them, just as has to be in real play. But this was first i took practice to combine all, so it was important to me i do right all steps just too see that edge :smiley:

The man who help me to get in VB world actualy, told me while i was at finding tilt degree theme that i shouldnt bother with leveled wheels and that is very advance and takes a lot of experience… And that out there should be enough 1-3 DD pin wheels i could take advantage off.

Anyway, second video forester uploaded was for leveled wheels, and it says so in begging. Today i started video just to watch it more for fun, because i didnt even had intention to try anything as i dont know how to handle leveled wheels.

Then i read that here on forum Forester has E2 system that is for leveled wheels. I read it and just for fun decided to check it on Bob-s spins. But then i saw something that i didnt excpected. One dd had unusual more hits then i expected. I stopped and then recored 70 spins which i think it should be more enough to see right degree of tilt?

1.DD- 34 hits
2.DD 12 hits
3.DD 9 hits
4. DD 15 hits

It looks like this, so I am not sure like this should look leveled wheel, although video says it is level wheel??

So btw which deflector should be use as refference point in this case if wheel is not leveled, but have situation like this? a bit confused with this…

And second question is how rare/often in todays casinos we have perfectly leveled wheels? Ls says that on todays modern low profile wheels we have less edge then in past in generaly , but still 10-15 can be readibly achivalble?

So should be for start enough to learn and search/play 1-3 pin game and mind leveled game? Should i have enough opportunities?

I would realy appreciate any answer or comment.

Thank you


so you have 34 hits to one diamond from 70 attemtps. if you will have about the same proportions of hits in next 35-40 spins that means that wheel is really tilted . If that data is from B.Gordon video then all is clear in his video leveled wheel is far no really leveled. To choose which diamond to use as reference point is better to have scatering diagram from every diamond, but if talk simple - that diamond which have more hits is better. To find really leveled wheel is the same hard like really tilted wheel. In most cases all wheels have some tilt only to determine that you need maybe more data. Mine sugestion is if you want to play tilted wheel look at at least 2-3 sigma which leves about consistent duering 50-70 spins if counting separate theese spins in two equal parts. And as i sayed do ball bouncing diagram from every diamond that can help you for play.

I read that can happen and as procedure tells, took last active of those 2, and interesting got even bigger edge this time of 103%.

Whatever you read is wrong you should always target the most dominant diamond, is it first or second it doesn’t matter. If the ball make 5.25 rotations the result will match 6, but same happens if the ball makes 6.75. It is wrong teaching that only first DD has to be used or that second DD has to be used when if you look wider picture it really doesn’t make any difference. Selecting the most dominant diamond as Bebediktus pointed gives you more spot on prediction, the other diamond gives only close enough predictions.

His leveled wheel is more tilted then leveled.

In regards to 3 dominant diamonds I just made a post.

Understanding roulette wheel and exploiting possibilities

Don’t believe most videos you see on the net, they are for marketing purposes. You’ll not see when the ball hits wrong diamonds where prediction wouldn’t match but often you’ll see better final results including ball jumps then positions where the ball actually hits the rotor.

Thank you a lot gents. I always enjoy when i learn or hear something that can help to make me better in any case, especialy in this.

Well that about taking last active deflector from ball direction as refference point in 2 and 3 pin game i read in Masters roulette… I have few methods and ways of estimating ball and wheel speed so important is to know what is best in all that, and how to compile best model of play.

Ok i ll throw that out, and take only the one with most hits as refference point or if very similar in hitting distribution i ll have to look my bounce diagram.

That i missed when i started actualy, i will have to implement it for sure.

But just to be sure i got it right. That diagram must consist of two things: when ball is in moment of hitting the diamond i look which number is under that diamond and later in which pocket it ended? Or number in which ball first landed in? So i ll calculate distance in pockets to see if there is most common bouncing for each diamond.

So all together on my notepad i should have

visual read under refference diamond after i find excat revolution
number in moment of hitting the diamond
and final outcome after which
i got relative distance, right?

In bobs spins speed of wheel is quite constant all the time and reasonably slow i would say , and when we have lot of speed changes, adjusting distance according to change of speed is another not so easy subject i suppose?

Or some begginer should only calculate 2 maybe 3 offsets comparing to some speed and actualy only play 2-3 speeds?

Cheers and thanks


So all together on my notepad i should have

visual read under refference diamond after i find excat revolution
number in moment of hitting the diamond
and final outcome after which
i got relative distance, right?

It depends in which way you get prediction. But usually it is enough to write wheel speed and distance from hiting to diamond and outcome. Wheel speed is good to write to see if there are relationship between that speed and bouncing distance . Sometimes you can find that , sometimes - not, but main aim of that diagram is to find situations when hiting to diferent diamonds are compensated with diferent scatering - say hits to D2 have averidge scatering -12 but hiting to D3 -0. When we found such situation we have twice more chances to win because outcomes are almoust the same.

Thank you i understand, but when i was already in first post here mentioning leveled wheels, is my line of thinking good with this?

Lets say we have equal hitting on all diamonds, but if we have better or to say small average scatter on one of them, we could get edge, right?

But that has to be mathematicaly calculated first?


Diference between leveled wheel and tilted wheel is that if you made reliatively small mistake in determing ball speed on tilted wheel it can, not make any error in prediction and that is in many cases. On leveled wheel every mistake in determine ball speed will lead to some biger or smaller mistake in prediction acuracy. But that not means that leveled wheel cant be beaten. Only on leveled wheel are other criterias for play - best when scatering is very similar from every landing position or , again if there are situations where one scatering compensate hiting to other diamond. In other words - you must have very good understanding of ball behaviour and be able to use scatering to your favour.

I understand.

Thanks for reminding about scatter charts :slight_smile:

I ll do some changes and test again, and lot of practice to master all that perfectly and connect all that things to go smoothly and automated … But that is fun part after so much struggle to get to here… :wink: at least in my case…




A very perceptive article , I should vote for Nobel Prize in roulette.

Many thanks, this helps much. Could I translate it in my native language for an other board ?