Has anyone bought Jafco's system?

[Forester]

One ball rotation during single spin.

For example the objective is to detect particular rotation before then ball drops.
Lets say fifth.
After you detect it every time (if you did correctly) and if ball will travel for additional 5 rotations and if it will always drop at particular place (dominant diamond) then all you need to know what is the number under the DD, then how much rotor will move in time of remaining 5 rotations. (since you already know where the ball will hit). Assuming that remaining 5 rotations will be made within reasonably constant time interval.


I’ll be away for few days, good luck.

[CroatianGuy]

Thanks, VB is a little clearer now.

[Hand Eye Coordinater]

Forester,
Even if i am a newbie here, i want to express my opinion about the topic that is discussed in this forum. First of all the entire thread that i have analyzed for this discussion tells me, that all you guys...jafco/scott/kelly/forester are knowledgeable enough and everybody has what i call his own flavor of VB.
I am really thrilled to know the in depth research and problem solving attitude that you guys have shown.I can understand your effort building your RC ( logic/software/hardware).
Although i wanted to know one thing from you. You have analyzed jafcos system well, and you mentioned it in this discussion that it requires lots of understanding and skill by a player.
I am trying to benchmark both approaches and would like to know that how your VB2 (once understood by a player) would in fact require less ability from the player? Does it mean that whenever a player uses your VB2 has to reply less upon factors like ball revolution....TOF and POF (as mentioned earlier here), and only focus on the rotor speed? Also you have mentioned that your VB2 should cover almost all wheels ( leveled,tilted,biased). Since you are an expert in this, i would like to know whether you tested it on various wheels, with variable rotor speeds? What are your experiences with it?
 The most important thing that other people are also looking here is that do u completely rely on VB2 when you yourself play with real money, or you do a mix match of different VB's as kelly does? Since you say that cards in jefco's system is a good thing to start with for the newbies, what is a particular thing in your system that new people like me should look for to start up with, if we want to really master VB2.

VIPER...if you are reading this, i want to compliment you too for the kind of approach that you have shown in grasping VB. That should be really the way to go for whenever we want to learn something which is as skillful as VB. And of course as you always say, we are here to gain knowledge and share it.... and not fight....i totally agree with that

[Forester]

Although i wanted to know one thing from you. You have analyzed jafcos system well, and you mentioned it in this discussion that it requires lots of understanding and skill by a player.

Jafcos system requires from player to be capable to estimate ball speed.
It is hardest to do, if it is easy people wouldn’t try different methods to help them to identify particular ball revolution during the spin. It is hard because I can’t do it (with reasonable accuracy).

Other way the  the rotor control is similar with all approaches.
Of course Jafcos cards wouldn’t work on the other wheels, it is based on only material of the ball therefore every user will have to modify cards. After understanding it shouldn’t be hard. If he wants to make cards my suggestion still is he should make them based on remaining time from particular ball revolution.

The best would be to not use them at all. With vibe he is using constant time, when rotor is observed in particular time by noticing the difference in pockets that rotor moves from spin to spin we can know how much rotor movement will deviate to the end use simple multiplication factor.
For example rotor in 2 sec made 4 pockets more. It means rotor is moving 1 pockets per sec. extra. If remaining time from targeted ball revolution is 10 sec, all we need to do is multiply  rotor change (2 pockets) by 5. it is 10 pockets. Since rotor is traveling one pocket per sec faster and it will travel like that for remaining 10 sec. of course until the end of sin it will make extra 10 pockets if compared to previous spin. We adjust for it by shifting our observation point by 10 pockets in ball direction and read reference number form there.

VB2 doesn’t need to identify particular ball revolution.  So player’s judgment is eliminated. It can predict equally lets say 5,6,7,8.. revolutions before then the ball drops.
It is great isn’t it. But to gain something we lose something.
 
VB2 doesn’t like much rotor changes and fast rotor.
For example if rotor made 4 pockets more in 2 sec, if our prediction is different by 3 sec in time during the spin, regardless us make rotor adjustment we still can be wrong by 2pockets/s rotor x 3 sec = 6 pockets.

With some practice I believe ordinary person (as I am) can estimate ball speed within 3 sec during the spin (about 400 ms difference in ball speed) . To be right with estimating right ball revolution you really need skill to detect ball speed with better then 100ms difference.

Additional problem with VB2 is if we do not use electronics  timer.
No matter how we count for reference time it may deviate. Also after longer play it may change, so we need to have good observation what is going on the wheel based on prediction and positions where the ball hits rotor.

Also you have mentioned that your VB2 should cover almost all wheels ( leveled,tilted,biased).

That is not the truth. Only tilted wheel, with slower rotor, 3.5 sec and slower per rotation is preferred.

Since you are an expert in this, i would like to know whether you tested it on various wheels, with variable rotor speeds? What are your experiences with it?
 The most important thing that other people are also looking here is that do u completely rely on VB2 when you yourself play with real money, or you do a mix match of different VB's as kelly does? Since you say that cards in jefco's system is a good thing to start with for the newbies, what is a particular thing in your system that new people like me should look for to start up with, if we want to really master VB2.

I tested VB2 more then you can imagine. I play it all the time and I do not practice any other VB..
It is never easy. VB can never be accurate as good RC. With RC is hard in most of situations then imagine VB.

If the wheel is 100 with hits on DD, if the ball jumps are small then yes.
But what you find in reality is slight tilt, it also changes, wider ball jumps that take at least 50 % of your advantage. No perfect predictions, combined with all of that requires you to be smart alert with good noticing skill to understand what is going on the table.
On top of that you fight evil which these days are very much aware of advantage players and people with late bets, they will distract you when you are winning.

I do not  like to write much about wins, but lets say from start of  2010 I used VB2 few times and made nice wins. Few nights ago I have had disaster, whatever could go wrong it went wrong. I made a loss it is big loss but still small if compared to recent winnings.
It is something that we need to accept.

You may ask how I can lose?
It is simple.
Wheel wasn’t so much tilted, it was also changing, many spinners, I still have had many spins predicted ball drop point well.

2 times I missed 28 I did not have time to cover it, 28 is far on the table. Around 28 are numbers 7 and 12 I have had 4 units. Same happened with 35 two times and 4 other times something similar.  To many times missed by one or 2 pockets. So many missed chances and only 2 are needed to not lose. Also chips I was playing before spin did not give any return. Sometimes during the play I left the table, on return I start playing but it took me few spins to understand that something has happened on the wheel. The game was going up and down due to explained, I couldn’t progress, mostly losing then catching up. The last dealer told me sir no man can track my spins (he was smartly changing rotor speed).
Then come my unprofessional part. Be or not to be. Increase bets play few spins and go home. 
On the way out manager stopped me and suggest me that I should register with them, something as, with amounts you play you can get many reward points. LOL sure.

Lose is not always lose, it is part of the game to stay in the game. This time it was only double then what I would tolerate.

This story is written with good will for people who think that VB advantage play is a miracle, please do not misinterpret it. 

[Hand Eye Coordinater]

I do not  like to write much about wins

You may ask how I can lose?
It is simple.

This story is written with good will for people who think that VB advantage play is a miracle, please do not misinterpret it. 

Forester,
First of all thank you for taking out your valuable time in reading my post, and making those important remarks. I have been reading the posts meticulously to get some gist out of it, and i haven't found you describing so much about your wins. I feel that these words are very important for every new beginner to interpret that loss is a part of game to be in the game. Now lets get a little technical here....

VB2 doesn’t like much rotor changes and fast rotor.
For example if rotor made 4 pockets more in 2 sec, if our prediction is different by 3 sec in time during the spin, regardless us make rotor adjustment we still can be wrong by 2pockets/s rotor x 3 sec = 6 pockets.

That is not the truth. Only tilted wheel, with slower rotor, 3.5 sec and slower per rotation is preferred.

Now when you say the above sentence, we are making a healthy estimation that in order for VB2 to work properly, the rotor changes should be as minimal as possible, plus the factor that the rotor should be slower or equal to 3.5 sec. The point which i want to make is how can you guarantee that these conditions will be true. With so much changing technology and research involved in wheel making, how is it not possible that those 2 factors will not change. On the website of John Huxley (TCS), they are showing new ways for the casinos to record every spin into a database, which will have sufficient business intelligence (BI) tools running on them to alert the HOUSE and manipulate the rotor speed ...may be for every spin. Your estimation of the remaining revolutions of the ball may not be correct in these cases, as there are constant inner software ways to control that rotor.
Again you use the phrase Only tilted wheel here. Now practically many players including the legends like Scott (who mainly plays in Vegas/Nevada), and kelly have mentioned that tilted/biased/dirty wheels are very hard to find, and with new innovations in the technology they will be harder and harder to find due to increase maintainence schedules by the casinos.
The question is in then how do u define tilted wheel? Is it the wheel which has most hits on any particular DD/pins........or something different, or you just assume it? How many spins do you yourself prefer to record or watch at the wheel, before you declare that it is tilted? ( I remember you mentioning in one of the forums that you really do not wait or record too much of spins, before you actually get on playing with your real money)

VB can never be accurate as good RC

This thing i would suppose as a quite obvious fact. Even if we talk extraordinary things about FFA...FFZ, the questions remains, are we allowed to use them in real casino conditions??? The answer to this question is a big NO. First of all it is not legal ...le.g they have passed a law in Las Vegas, and it will never be...in many parts of the world. I have also read a forum where you yourself (even if you have built a RC) have generously appealed people to not use the RC. This is good part in you. Even if you haven't heard of anybody caught that way, i would say that you are in big danger when you actually get caught, which could screw your career and may be your dreams to become rich, if your name comes in one of those griffin or private organization books, which is circulated world wide in many casinos

VB2 doesn’t need to identify particular ball revolution.  So player’s judgment is eliminated. It can predict equally lets say 5,6,7,8.. revolutions before then the ball drops.

Now could you explain how is that possible? With constant varying factors affecting against a player....how can you do that effectively?

Jafcos system requires from player to be capable to estimate ball speed.
It is hardest to do, if it is easy people wouldn’t try different methods to help them to identify particular ball revolution during the spin. It is hard because I can’t do it (with reasonable accuracy).

Now with so many factors, and the technology controlling the rotor speed, maintainance and the tilt of the wheel, dont you think that the BALL speed is the only thing which the technology cannot control (since it is spiinned by a dealer ...a human), which we should look for, when we predict. I do aggree that the size and material of the ball will decide its bounce and trajectory, and also the speed, but i want to say that it is the only parameter in all these set of parameters (rotor/wheel), that is on our side, and is controlled by a human ( the croupier/dealer).

As always...i still recon you as a gentleman, and i have huge respect for you as an advantage player...so thank you for reading this one too

[Forester]

Now when you say the above sentence, we are making a healthy estimation that in order for VB2 to work properly, the rotor changes should be as minimal as possible, plus the factor that the rotor should be slower or equal to 3.5 sec. The point which i want to make is how can you guarantee that these conditions will be true. With so much changing technology and research involved in wheel making, how is it not possible that those 2 factors will not change. On the website of John Huxley (TCS), they are showing new ways for the casinos to record every spin into a database, which will have sufficient business intelligence (BI) tools running on them to alert the HOUSE and manipulate the rotor speed ...may be for every spin. Your estimation of the remaining revolutions of the ball may not be correct in these cases, as there are constant inner software ways to control that rotor.

It is not the software who decides about rotor speed but it is the dealer. It is my choice when to play. If rotor changes in between 3.5 to 4.5s it is not the problem. You also need to understand that when deciding to start vb2 during the spin i explained if I do it within 3 sec. I may be wrong 6 pockets. But it ould be that 70 % of times I am starting it within  1.5s. It is up to 6 not always wrong 6.  6 pockets deviation is not bad. 

Again you use the phrase Only tilted wheel here. Now practically many players including the legends like Scott (who mainly plays in Vegas/Nevada), and kelly have mentioned that tilted/biased/dirty wheels are very hard to find, and with new innovations in the technology they will be harder and harder to find due to increase maintainence schedules by the casinos.
The question is in then how do u define tilted wheel? Is it the wheel which has most hits on any particular DD/pins........or something different, or you just assume it? How many spins do you yourself prefer to record or watch at the wheel, before you declare that it is tilted? ( I remember you mentioning in one of the forums that you really do not wait or record too much of spins, before you actually get on playing with your real money)

Yes I do not wait much because I already know the wheel. But when you take full picture, playing small bets at start is same as waiting. Yes it is harder and harder every day. But I did not find harder to find tilt, but harder with some kind of wheels where ball jumps are wider.
Yes RC are illegal to use. VB2 is something I did long time ago, but did not finish it fully. When thanks to some fags my name come across the net I worked more on it.
I found it most suitable VB for myself.

Quote
VB2 doesn’t need to identify particular ball revolution.  So player’s judgment is eliminated. It can predict equally lets say 5,6,7,8.. revolutions before then the ball drops.

Now could you explain how is that possible? With constant varying factors affecting against a player....how can you do that effectively?

HEHHEHE, because the system is designed that way. It uses time reference that matches the distance that rotor made during difference in our starting time with amount of pockets that will be indicated during that reference time.
For example we play one spin get reference number and prediction.
Next spin we by mistake start 2 sec earlier. So if we just pick up reference number as with traditional VB and if rotor is 10 pockets per sec we would be wrong by 20 pockets. VB2 cancels that 20 pockets and still gives us the same reference number as we were taking reference number 2 sec later.

I do not understand why you are saying technology is controlling rotor speed. No it doesn’t, so I assume you are talking about automated wheels.

[Hand Eye Coordinater]

Forester,
Thanks for your reply. I think i am gonna start a project about benchmarking your VB2, by adding my little experiments into it. You have already mentioned several times that your VB2 is completly free, and documented somewhere.
Could you message me the link, or may be a PDF of your VB2. I will read it in detail tonight. I am really getting thrilled about your way of prediction. You are already a GURU to me, but if your VB2 starts making more sense to me...then i will be a loyal student of yours forever.
Kind Regards

[Forester]

http://www.myrulet.com/index.php/myrulet-visual-prediction.html

[The Doc]

Having seen a personaldemonstration on both the Visual and Computer system i was convinced that Jafco's system was a well thought out and not overly complicated system. On my first night using the visual system i won £4500 with a float of £100. Now  that was more than just luck!. It is not always as simple as that but there is more to Jafco's system that just ballistics, and he gives very good instruction on all aspects of play.

I can thoroughly recommend it and he is a genuine gentleman and enthusiatic about teaching his system and he wants you to win!

Good luck

[Forester]

Interesting,

I looked few of his systems and I can comment only what I could read from what people have received when they purchased it. 

“there is more to Jafco's system that just ballistics”

I did not see anything more in any of documents.
Actually I did not see even ballistics since he has no way of identifying particular ball revolution. He only teaches people to guess it.

“On my first night using the visual system i won £4500 with a float of £100. Now  that was more than just luck! “

So you were guessing well    I wish I can do it.

Can you explain how could you just watch the wheel and accurately guess right ball revolution?

[Forester]

I never blocked Kelly he was always free to express his opinion and he still is.
After we had disagreement he decided to not post any more.
Fair enough but he is going around other forums and writing as if he is talking to me.

I assume he wants me to replay. Since all started here and everyone can follow posts I will do it here.

“The show goes on and on an on and on............ . 

Its obvious to everyone how forester twists everything so im not gonna reply forever.

How about "Maybe he drinks too much",   What a crappy remark from someone who claims to be serious. I bought 2 crates of Carlsberg (60 cans) for a larger family dinner in April 2009 and I still got 35 left 11 months later.   

Good to know, I did not say you drink but I said maybe you drink and in such case sometimes confuse people. Few months ago you wrote at other forums that I can’t understand LS cross over. Why. I point to you post where we were discussing it years back and you agreed with mw 100%, I point to you post where Laurance made a comment on my explanation that he wouldn’t explain it better himself. You stayed confused and without explanation. You never apologized. I am positive you mistaken me with MH so if you were not drunk there must be something else.

Obviously if it was what you could call a 1 1/2 pin game with 1 diamond obviously more dominant than the other, you would go for the one with the largest return. On that point we actually agreed but forester wouldn’t have it. Kelly not understands. Actually forester just tried to cover his mistake, because he knew he was wrong when there were no dominant diamond. So he invented the dominant diamond and wow lets go for that one. Sure Einstein, but that was not the topic.

Kelly, you accused me for attacking Jafcos system with no reason, (just because he is competitor)
Here you admitting that what I was saying were correct. You do not go for first diamond in order as Jafco was explaining in his document but for one that is the most dominant one. Previously you  clearly stated same as Jafco that you play 2 pin games only if you go for first diamond. It is not the truth. But I am glad you start understanding that even if you select second diamond as your reference you still play 2 pin games and take advantages from the other diamond. If that is the case then 2 pin games is something what is happening on the wheel and it has nothing to do with anyone’s system.



 

And picks, like I said you can steal them and use them all you want, I don’t care as long as you quote who made them. Not me but the authors.

It is a small chart; I received it from member as you know it. Anybody could make few lines and numbers. I do not know from where he got data from.

As for taking credit for being the first one to discuss wheel speed and scatter with Barnett and Gordon,

"You were not here long enough but years back I was the first one who brought this issue to public. First time I talked about it with Bob Gordon and Barnett when we had some discussions.  Did you ever see at any other place any graph or data about deviation of ball jumps? No you did not. But you probably did see some smart heads trying to be smart."

you are waaaaaayyyyyyyyyy behind.  Im quite sure both Barnett and Gordon had been working on that part for years before it dawned to you.  Basieux already mentioned it in 1985 - 86 and had a chart in a book in 1989. Kaisan has had it in his analysis since 1986. You were probably 12 years old then.

Feel free to twist this one. If you twist it enough I might even reply again, but frankly im not gonna waste too much time on you. “

Kelly you are the one who said we discovered it just now,
When I said first I do not mean first in the word, nobody would be able to know who was the first. If I told you MB and BG then you can know it is years back. So why you say just now. You should know that in Delvelopment section you are the one who published graphs 3 years ago and we discuss it then.
 Here is the link http://rouletteplace.com/index.php/topic,85.0.html
Published at September 28, 2006,    ….3.5 years ago

 But in boys club I published similar graphs with increased ball back bouncing on fast rotor much earlier. Obviously you have a short memory even forgetting your own publishements and discussions. (Ok, it’s not because excessive drinking)

What I was trying to say is that same person who convinced you that if he enters times that rotor takes for each rotation in to his computer manages scatter deviation even when it is negative, never ever published anything regarding that matter, same as Mark Howe never did. I did not see it in Jafco's document, i can't remember seeing it in LS.  I did test with FF showed predictions 10 rotations before then ball drops Stefano claims he did it long time ago. Where did you ever see it?
Same with graphs of scatter deviation.

Surprises me that after so many years on public forums as an AP you can’t understand that building with computer chart with predicted number and final ball stop simply can not define scatter deviation based on rotor speed in not even close time needed for the player to respond.
Regardless, did you ever see any other computer giving multiple predictions in any ball rotation during the spin?  I did not so if you did please let me know so I do not say the FFA is first.

After you disagreed with me on 2 pin game and after you couldn’t understand VB2 you decided to leave. It is ok with me but you are the one who goes around and writes about me and in most cased you are trying to discredit me with false statements. If you couldn’t understand VB2 and how I was explaining it why didn’t you ask Snowman or Jefra to help you understanding, you know them don’t you?
If it is truth that in 2 pin game you go for most dominant diamond then why you accuse me of discrediting jafco just because he is an competitor if he is the one who suggested player has to go for the first diamond.

Interesting enough to punish me you go to scammer’s forum where he discredits everything and anything that talks and thinks. Not only on forum but on every web page he makes. You were long enough here and you remember well how and why Stefano was using RSR when he was lying and pretending to be someone else giving false reviews discrediting all competitors with false statements. But list goes on and on you know a lot but you simply want to be double faced person. Stand up to be counted, or be forgotten. 


When this thread becomes hot I moved it to forums private section in respect to Jafco.
He asked to put it back to public. And Kelly is accusing me of discrediting Jafco, where is logic in all of that? If  Jafco at any time changes his mind I will move it away.